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Jedi

Logs system of all our trades/transfers

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2 minutes ago, Elie said:

E0HTIBo.png

Ah, damn.

 

Excuse me while I bring this to attention of the administrators. Meant to do this before, but forgot.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I think I am, but isn't the ticket system IP based? Or is that just for Volunteers?

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I support this suggestion, also support back transfer packet because the powers packet are visible, and have an "security question": "How many powers you have?" you can easily check on a bot, so why hide the transfer logs?

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9 hours ago, Andre said:

Trade logs aren't exactly the important part of locked/auth cases, I'm sure other volunteers can relate to that. Considering we don't really rely that much on trade logs and people don't generally keep a note nor remember who they've traded with.. I'm for this idea.

After some thought, I don't think my previous edit was a good idea to post publicly.

 

TL;DR I believe it's an important question in other departments. Though rare, if you have access to the user's account, you can also find out the email and access it and vice versa. Now they have the trade logs and the other two questions aren't the best at catching phishers.

9 hours ago, Lamingtons said:

I support this suggestion, also support back transfer packet because the powers packet are visible, and have an "security question": "How many powers you have?" you can easily check on a bot, so why hide the transfer logs?

I wanted userinfo to be removed at one point, but nothing happened. Would be nice, but whatever. If it happens, all we can do is not take their answer into consideration.

6 hours ago, Muffins said:

and this particular type question should only hold a small amount of weight, IMO

The other two hold an even smaller amount of weight. We can't just come up with other questions. Once the phisher has access to the email and account, there are only three pieces of information they can't get. Adding this would reduce it to two, and the other two you can bull on tickets.

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I agree that it would give a potential phisher a /one-up/ on the security questions if these transaction-related security questions are preserved for certain departments, but I ultimately came to the same conclusion as @Andre and lean in favor of it.

I would hope that these transaction-related security questions wouldn't be a deciding factor if it were in any way "dicey" when deciding to authorize a change.

As Andre mentioned, people can be forgetful with respect to transactions.. * and this particular type question should only hold a small amount of weight, IMO

On 4/25/2016 at 11:59 AM, Jedi said:

Can't you change those questions ? :p

I thought @Jedi put it well; I don't think this would be such a devastating loss in the pool of security questions to cherry pick from.

 

In the past, I've wanted to peek at my trade logs, and I agree with @Stah re: appeal to probability.

There doesn't seem to be a huge vector for this..

I think a lot of users would enjoy this addition.

 

When I private messaged @Jedi he proposed a sort according to various things in the logs page:

- amount / date / powers

I think those should be added, along with @Stah's suggestions.

 

EDIT:

After talking with @Elie by private message, he brought up a point that I think is worth noting:

"You are able to find out the email through the ticket system which increases the scope of the issue."

 

To put it succinctly, if a phisher is able to get control of the victim's email, the number of unknowns drop, and really that leaves only 2 other security questions (that are being used) to test on.

 

21 hours ago, Elie said:

The other two hold an even smaller amount of weight. We can't just come up with other questions. Once the phisher has access to the email and account, there are only three pieces of information they can't get. Adding this would reduce it to two, and the other two you can bull on tickets.

 

This could be mitigated if old tickets were hidden from the user, which would lower the number of phishing victims with their email's known, but of course it still doesn't completely cover all bases..

 

As @Jedi already mentioned, perhaps they could add another "universal" security question..

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10 hours ago, Elie said:

I wanted userinfo to be removed at one point, but nothing happened. Would be nice, but whatever. If it happens, all we can do is not take their answer into consideration.

If you want it to be removed, that means you won't be able to see users' powers on the chat.

 

-> Bad idea.

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I am going to put it blunt.  Having these logs would not effect the majority of you.  It will however effect the thousands of users who can not use

protection offered by xat in the poorer 3rd world countries that tap into internet cafes or use proxies or other means to get onto xat.  I am not sure that the users here

realize the extent of these users.  They do however make up a vast amt of xat users and xat needs to consider their security needs and safety.

Will you just tell them not to trade anymore?  You trading them and asking for logs will put them at great risk.

 

If Admins wanted to make a generic trade/transfer log first that simply states WHAT was traded and not to whom, it would be different.

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1 hour ago, Christina said:

trade/transfer log first that simply states WHAT was traded and not to whom, it would be different.

That's what I originally thought Jedi was suggesting. I didn't know it would cause a lot of harm. But creating a new strip would be a good bit of work for the admins and I don't see that happening. 

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1 hour ago, TinkerDoodle said:

That's what I originally thought Jedi was suggesting. I didn't know it would cause a lot of harm. But creating a new strip would be a good bit of work for the admins and I don't see that happening. 

If you trade a purple, but you don't know to who, it's useless (think).

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29 minutes ago, Jedi said:

If you trade a purple, but you don't know to who, it's useless (think).

Why is it useless?  You or others stated they wanted THEIR OWN records for sake of keeping track. If I receive a purple for 22k and sell it for 24k

then I clearly know I profited 2k.  It will show that much on log.

Unless there are ulterior motives here as I am guessing, and have seen having been a ticket volunteer and trade owner, not necc. implied at you.

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Bottom line is this topic has become users want more of THEIR own information available to them but volunteers think this will cause a security issue because they need that as a security question.

its not like a person could steal someones account and go on to a ticket and ask for transfer history.......

volunteers just don't want their job to be slightly harder end of story.

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40 minutes ago, Christina said:

Why is it useless?  You or others stated they wanted THEIR OWN records for sake of keeping track. If I receive a purple for 22k and sell it for 24k

then I clearly know I profited 2k.  It will show that much on log.

Unless there are ulterior motives here as I am guessing, and have seen having been a ticket volunteer and trade owner, not necc. implied at you.

If i want to re-sell a purple to this user, how will it work ?

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What makes you even think that user would once again want a purple?  

Fex bots have a trade feature already.  I worked with Jad to make it.

It tells you WHO is selling and WHO is buying particular powers.  

You have the right to YOUR information.  You do NOT have the right to other users information though.

 

Seems to me this is becoming MORE about wanting to know of the other user.  

Say you were scammed/phished.  You NOW have the info to personally go after the user.

People can now falsely accuse users with this info, as well.

 

I have also had more couples not trust their significant other and ask me for trade logs, as well.  It does happen.  LOL

 

I would not be against the generic log as I suggested.  

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43 minutes ago, Christina said:

What makes you even think that user would once again want a purple?  

Fex bots have a trade feature already.  I worked with Jad to make it.

It tells you WHO is selling and WHO is buying particular powers.  

You have the right to YOUR information.  You do NOT have the right to other users information though.

 

Seems to me this is becoming MORE about wanting to know of the other user.  

Say you were scammed/phished.  You NOW have the info to personally go after the user.

People can now falsely accuse users with this info, as well.

 

I have also had more couples not trust their significant other and ask me for trade logs, as well.  It does happen.  LOL

 

I would not be against the generic log as I suggested.  

Lol nonsense.

 

If we can't see to who we sold a powers or transfers xats, it's useless.

 

"You sent 100 xats Monday 25th April at 10pm" Ok, that's useless.

 

About the feature fexbots made, it worked like a charm (hippo). http://fexbots.com/tools/trade Nothing to buy, nothing to sell.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Christina said:

What makes you even think that user would once again want a purple?  

Fex bots have a trade feature already.  I worked with Jad to make it.

It tells you WHO is selling and WHO is buying particular powers.  

You have the right to YOUR information.  You do NOT have the right to other users information though.

 

Seems to me this is becoming MORE about wanting to know of the other user.  

Say you were scammed/phished.  You NOW have the info to personally go after the user.

People can now falsely accuse users with this info, as well.

 

I have also had more couples not trust their significant other and ask me for trade logs, as well.  It does happen.  LOL

 

I would not be against the generic log as I suggested.  

Who you traded with is your info. If I trade with a user, I know they traded with me. This is my information. You previously suggested that we write it down on paper; is this now wrong because it's "their" information?

 

It seems to me like you keep changing your reason as to why this isn't a good idea.

 

This will be my last reply debating, since I doubt it will happen anyway, but I think there are some cons but they are outweighed by the pros. So I support it.

 

Also about the Trade feature on Fexbots, I think it's a really good idea and should be promoted more. I think it would be helpful.

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I think she meant that you should not be able see the trade logs of other users (or not?)

And yea, the trade feature from fexbots is kinda useless. :)

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51 minutes ago, LaFleur said:

I think she meant that you should not be able see the trade logs of other users (or not?)

And yea, the trade feature from fexbots is kinda useless. :)

Exactly what I meant....and then some.  I don't understand WHY the WHO is so important? 

Maybe there is something I am just not getting?

Fexbots feature would not be useless if more people used it TBH.

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