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Jedi

Logs system of all our trades/transfers

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2 minutes ago, Stah said:

This doesn't need to be made into a power or a big thing at all. Users can access their log via a page and if they know how to utilize the data and make some statistics (someone can make a tool for them if that want to) then they can do so, if they don't know how to utilize or don't want to use the tool then the information still has value in knowing what you've traded and transferred over the time you've been on xat.

 

I didn't say, it needs to be made into a power (d) but i agree on what are you saying, a page is enough, after that remains a choice to the user to manage the values (or only check history) and do everything himself (if he knows)

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9 minutes ago, Jedi said:

 And the stats system can also help xat economy, people will want to make more profits, it will help traders.

Economically speaking, that won't change anything. The information is transparent enough.

I also do not see why users would want to make more profits with this tool.

 

The only consequence possible is a wealthy snowball effect on traders, which means they will need to buy less xats.

 

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3 minutes ago, Sydno said:

Economically speaking, that won't change anything. The information is transparent enough.

I also do not see why users would want to make more profits with this tool.

 

The only consequence possible is a wealthy snowball effect on traders, which means they will need to buy less xats.

 

Ok, you didn't understant how trade works.

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You guys need to understand...Its not just about asking security question.  

Its about asking the history of trades and transfers..phishers......and so much more.

Say they did replace the question for users.  Its not ONLY there that this information is needed.

Several months ago xat had a data breach.... Is that really information xat wants to get out?  Its not.

 

Its not information users want other users to have. Nor is it  information that should be risked.

It also Prob. falls under the data protection act, as well. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Ok, you didn't understant how trade works.

Just explain how it works. Just tell me how it would impact trading, what does "helping" traders exactly means.

Xat Trade is one of the rare pure and perfect market, then that's pretty easier to build mecanisms when something new comes in, so just tell me.

 

Without speaking of economy, Christina underlined an important fact.

 

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Others have calculations on who collects what..who sells what.......prices from start to present..how many powers released.

THAT is information that benefits traders.

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3 minutes ago, Christina said:

Several months ago xat had a data breach.... Is that really information xat wants to get out?  Its not.

They have the whole database, xat is lucky, they didn't leak it. But they have the information, and who cares about list of powerid when you have all paypal/skrill details :s.

4 minutes ago, Sydno said:

Just explain how it works. Just tell me how it would impact trading, what does "helping" traders exactly means.

Xat Trade is one of the rare pure and perfect market, then that's pretty easier to build mecanisms when something new comes in, so just tell me.

 

Without speaking of economy, Christina underlined an important fact.

 

You answered yourself to this question here 

 

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11 minutes ago, Christina said:

It also Prob. falls under the data protection act, as well

Good point.

 

Lets all send subject access requests to xat and demand our data from them. That's how the DPA works. We have a right to our data. (I don't know how this is relevant to your point, though)

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Point is allowing access to this information just makes it that much easier.  

It also targets peoples heads by allowing others to possibly know what users have.

 

Anyway you can continue discussing it.  Volunteers WORD is not final.

They are prob. just telling you 99% chance of what Admins would.

 

You have a right to your data should you request it, in writing.

It does not mean everyone else has a right to your data....which is the way it would have to work to help "trade", as suggested.

 

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12 minutes ago, Christina said:

You guys need to understand...Its not just about asking security question.  

Its about asking the history of trades and transfers..phishers......and so much more.

Say they did replace the question for users.  Its not ONLY there that this information is needed.

Several months ago xat had a data breach.... Is that really information xat wants to get out?  Its not.

 

Its not information users want other users to have. Nor is it  information that should be risked.

It also Prob. falls under the data protection act, as well. 

 

 

 

Need to understand what, seriously ? Vols have access to history trade/transfers. Do you think, they can't do much with it if xat doesn't know about it? They shouldn't have access to it. Volunteers are normal users but they have access and us, we don't have access. Is it normal ? No.

 

Xats/Powers are nothing related to security question, and i don't think (like someone said), scammer doesn't care about the history but more about to steal the xats/days/powers. But if you people think, it's a "security question"... We can't do much for you. It's not like if xat is sharing (From IP : the IP) on the history.

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3 minutes ago, Christina said:

Point is allowing access to this information just makes it that much easier.  

It also targets peoples heads by allowing others to possibly know what users have.

 

Anyway you can continue discussing it.  Volunteers WORD is not final.

They are prob. just telling you 99% chance of what Admins would.

 

You have a right to your data should you request it, in writing.

It does not mean everyone else has a right to your data....which is the way it would have to work to help "trade", as suggested.

 

What?

 

Yes, totally. Giving you a page with your own trades and transfers and you knowing what you traded (which you already know... because like... you did it yourself) targets other people and is against the data protection act. Yup. OK. Got it.

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16 minutes ago, Christina said:

You guys need to understand...Its not just about asking security question.  

Its about asking the history of trades and transfers..phishers......and so much more.

Say they did replace the question for users.  Its not ONLY there that this information is needed.

Several months ago xat had a data breach.... Is that really information xat wants to get out?  Its not.

 

Its not information users want other users to have. Nor is it  information that should be risked.

It also Prob. falls under the data protection act, as well. 

 

 

Since the data breach, it feels like xat fears adding new features or changing anything out of fear. NOT adding new features or improving the site out of fear that some data could be breached is a terrible solution to that problem. The data breach was a wake up call, it has happened once in how many years? And now that admins saw it happen I imagine replicating something like the breach will be much more difficult moving forward.

 

Plus, don't volunteers/admins have this information anyway? If the reason it won't be added is out of fear of it being leaked, it could still be leaked now!

 

With our trade and transfer logs, and with only us having access to them, the trade questions and "phishing" questions can still be asked.

 

This suggestion says that ONLY YOU would have access to your logs. I don't know why you (and others) keep bringing up that other users shouldn't have access to this info. They won't, and even if they somehow did, they did have this information for years and nobody complained.

 

xat can't avoid improving their site out of fear of something happening... the only way the site is going to gain more users and keep its current users is by constantly improving and competing with the increasing amount of competition. The focus should be on improving.

6 minutes ago, Christina said:

Point is allowing access to this information just makes it that much easier.  

It also targets peoples heads by allowing others to possibly know what users have.

 

Anyway you can continue discussing it.  Volunteers WORD is not final.

They are prob. just telling you 99% chance of what Admins would.

 

You have a right to your data should you request it, in writing.

It does not mean everyone else has a right to your data....which is the way it would have to work to help "trade", as suggested.

 

In the real world, this information is available... should we remove financial logs/data in real life due to people "targeting" others? Obviously not, I don't think anyone on earth would say that is a good idea.

 

So why block it on xat?

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2 minutes ago, Steven said:

This suggestion says that ONLY YOU would have access to your logs. I don't know why you (and others) keep bringing up that other users shouldn't have access to this info. They won't, and even if they somehow did, they did have this information for years and nobody complained.

 

 @Christina didn't understand this part apparently :).

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Well, seems like everyone is either totally for it or totally against it and not budging.

 

Just.. good luck getting it past admins.

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Jedi I understand that perfectly.  I was addressing the  facts people said it would benefit trade. But let me give you and example.  Then maybe you can understand.

 

So user X asks for his trade logs.  He receives them.  User x stores them on his computer. 

User X gets phished by user Z.  User Z gains access to these logs...which are 2 party Logs  BTW.

 

User Z now has critical information that can help him phish user A B and C now because he can verify trades.

 

That is Just 1 example.  

What do I have to gain in all this?  Nothing.  I also have nothing to lose.  Obviously I must know something to stick to this opinion.

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Quote

I would like a list of all our trades/transfers. e.g events system.

 

It would be much easier for traders or users who trade/transfer a lot to have a history of their trades/transfers.

 

What do you think about this suggestion?

good idea Jedi.

i support it :$

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2 minutes ago, Christina said:

Jedi I understand that perfectly.  I was addressing the  facts people said it would benefit trade. But let me give you and example.  Then maybe you can understand.

 

So user X asks for his trade logs.  He receives them.  User x stores them on his computer. 

User X gets phished by user Z.  User Z gains access to these logs...which are 2 party Logs  BTW.

 

User Z now has critical information that can help him phish user A B and C now because he can verify trades.

 

That is Just 1 example.  

What do I have to gain in all this?  Nothing.  I also have nothing to lose.  Obviously I must know something to stick to this opinion.

Or user Z can just ask users A B and C about their trade info, which is not something the average xat user keeps locked in a vault, and phish them just the same.

 

Also, if a user is known to have been phished and there's a risk that his trade logs are out, ticket volunteers can ask user Z, as he tries to phish A B and C, about trades/transfers OTHER than with user X. They could disregard anything involving user X knowing that the information was made somewhat public.

 

But once again, I reiterate my point that trade information is not that difficult to get from the average user anyway. The pros for this idea outweigh the cons easily, IMO.

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16 minutes ago, Christina said:

Jedi I understand that perfectly.  I was addressing the  facts people said it would benefit trade. But let me give you and example.  Then maybe you can understand.

 

So user X asks for his trade logs.  He receives them.  User x stores them on his computer. 

User X gets phished by user Z.  User Z gains access to these logs...which are 2 party Logs  BTW.

 

User Z now has critical information that can help him phish user A B and C now because he can verify trades.

 

That is Just 1 example.  

What do I have to gain in all this?  Nothing.  I also have nothing to lose.  Obviously I must know something to stick to this opinion.

Yes, you're right. That one question is the be all and end all for all processes conducted in the ticket system, surely you know better than that. In some cases it can be critical, but in most it's not.

 

User Z might have a single trade or a few trades with users A, B and C (which may not be in the past 3 months, for a start) but if that user opens 3 tickets saying he lost access to A, B and C and only states trades with User X, something is going to flag up (apart from the fact that opening 3 tickets to 3 accounts from totally different locations etc is not suspicious on it's own) and then the other 10(?) possible questions they could need to answer.

 

If User Z can't answer the ISP/Locations and other questions, including other personal ones, such as the gifts question, there's absolute zero chance on that user phishing the other users, the trade log isn't giving him enough information to phish the other users no matter how many scenarios you can think up (causal oversimplification?). It may do so, in combination with other things, but you can then argue "lets remove this and that" because there's a chance.

 

Appeal to probability anyone?

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6 minutes ago, Stah said:

Yes, you're right. That one question is the be all and end all for all processes conducted in the ticket system, surely you know better than that. In some cases it can be critical, but in most it's not.

 

User Z might have a single trade or a few trades with users A, B and C but if that user opens 3 tickets saying he lost access to A, B and C and only states trades with User Z, something is going to flag up (apart from the fact that opening 3 tickets to 3 accounts from totally different locations etc is not suspicious on it's own) Not to mention the other 10(?) possible questions they could need to answer. Turns out it's not so critical. If User Z can't answer the ISP/Locations and other questions (including other personal ones, such as the gifts question) there's absolute zero chance on that user phishing the other users, based on the trade log.

And what do you want volunteers to do?  Keep track of everyone who was phished and their possible trades to be on the lookout?

Maybe in an ideal world but not xat.

Volunteers have enough to keep track of without having to worry about more.

 

You guys think wrong.  Volunteers do not just have trade logs lying around for their use every time they want it or need it.

Having owned trade..having been a volunteer....having been a normal trader...I dont see what can outweigh users security to benefit this.  I personally would not even want this info.  

If you so desperately want to know what you trade, open a ticket and ask.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Christina said:

If you so desperately want to know what you trade, open a ticket and ask.

And if someone gets onto my account and check my tickets, and see i asked for logs.

We will have a security issue no? :s

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I asked Jedi/Stah if they have ever got trade info from ticket before (I was genuinely curious not trying to be smart or something). They said yes.

 

So, if this information is available through ticket, why would it not be automatically available for anyone who wants it? That would save volunteer time cause they wouldn't need to bother with those tickets. Even if they are few and far between.

 

Is there some difference that I am missing?

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I am going to take a legal standpoint here and could be wrong.

My guess is at least when it is on ticket, they have it in writing that you asked.

 

Jedi I would take it being on a ticket vs a file any day.  

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I think everyone arguing against are going hard on the causal oversimplification (fallacy of the single cause) as well.

 

Yes, under certain circumstances this could lead to a user being phished. However, it wouldn't solely just be because they had access to trade logs, as I highlighted previously, is simply not enough to know who traded what. It would be in combination with other information that have gained that is completely independent of the trade logs which led them to being able to fool volunteers, which, still happens today and as I type this out. Clearly, it's possible to phish users with or without this information, so imo, adding it can't add more risks.

 

In, and only in, combination with other things could this be a possible issue. But I doubt that it's going to turn into one. Just because something may happen, doesn't mean it will. And this information will be available through the data protection act (they can charge a fee for this, though) and even through ticket.

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6 minutes ago, Jedi said:

And if someone gets onto my account and check my tickets, and see i asked for logs.

We will have a security issue no? :s

E0HTIBo.png

Ah, damn.

 

Excuse me while I bring this to attention of the administrators. Meant to do this before, but forgot.

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