General discussion

[Christina]

Should General Discussion topics be closed when they are NOT creating drama, just because a moderator

feels so?  

 

Past few days, I have seen a few topics get closed.  These topics did not create drama.  Its as if someone felt their answer is enough so lets close them. Handling them like general help.

What is the point of general discussion forum then?  To play never ending games?  If users can NOT express their opinions in non criticism manner then whats the point?

Users SHOULD be heard more.  We should be allowed to have a voice as long as it is respectful toward xat and our fellow users.

 

[TinkerDoodle]

Personally I agree with this to an extent. Sometimes people do ask questions on here, like when Marya11211 asked what the first epic power is(which was a really strange question since she is staff at trade) and then Lemona answered, there was no point of having the topic still opened because there was nothing to be discussed. However, the topic should fair trade be more enforced, I have no idea why it was closed in the first place. Okay Maverick commented on it and gave his opinion, but that doesn't mean other people won't comment on his reply. His word isn't law. There was still much to be discussed, so I don't see why they closed it at all. I agree with users should be heard more, and the forums is a great way for users to be vocal. 

[Brandon]

I only see one topic that applies, but I agree.

[Christina]

 I would of also liked to of commented on the thread that people mentioned me in and was never given the chance, as well.

Those are just few examples.  

[GEOX]

does not exist confidence after betrayal, neither respect after injury

[TinkerDoodle]

10 minutes ago, BOY$ said:

does not exist confidence after betrayal, neither respect after injury

Very wise, what you just said, but how does this relate to topics created by users being closed unfairly? 

[Nick]

Agreed.

 

I feel like a lot of the staff (not all of them) like to think they should be able to close topics after giving answers (with an exception to General Support). It's not fair to the rest of the community who has a opinion and would like to voice it. 

[Flake]

In cases where there is an absolute answer (usually in General Support), there should be close to one answer and it should be closed ASAP, to prevent people from bumping a thread with an already perfect answer given. However, for the majority of the topics in General Discussion, this will not occur. In General Discussion it is almost always somewhat a matter of opinion. In all honesty, all topics on General Discussion should be a subjective topic, and if it isn't, it doesn't belong in General Discussion. Closing topics so soon when there is no absolute answer is ridiculous - the more ideas heard from others, the more ideas generated, and so there is an increased likelihood of a 'better solution' for the topic.

 

However, I believe when there is a general public consensus on the best possible solution to the topic, a mod/vol should be able to close the topic. What's the point in allowing more ideas if the majority of them are just going to be the same thing?

 

In the case of threads in General Discussion that aren't a debate, they should never be closed anyway.

 

Conclusion? Keep threads open at all times on General Discussion unless the thread is not an opinionated topic (in which case it doesn't even belong in General Discussion), UNLESS there is an overwhelming majority opinion on what should happen in order to fix the said issue.

[Christina]

I think it is pretty common sense.  The few threads I made this in reference to though could of said more. 

I realize not everyone is respectful adults that can take criticism well or keep things cival and debate while respecting the other side or opinions.  However..one thing that eludes me and that I

have been very vocal about, is the fact that I feel once you get into a position of "power" on xat, it becomes a game of follow the leader.

I feel that in order for xat to hear what the users really want, or how they feel, more need to be vocal about it.  I feel quickly closing of threads will shy users away from doing so.

 

Others can disagree with me, rightfully so.  This is just my opinion based on my own personal experience.

 

[TinkerDoodle]

That's why I'm glad that you made this topic, because now the forum staff knows that the community disagrees with them closing topics on here. The forum staff probably didn't really think about it thoroughly, and since there are multiple people who agree with your point, maybe they'll stop. It's all about communication between the community and staff. 

 

 

But I do find it funny that a volunteer agrees with your point but the topic "should fair trade be more enforced" is still closed. 

[CLassified3]

I did get my answer though in a way.... he just summarized up the entire page of it and closed it. 

[Communism]

Agreed. Threads being prematurely locked or deleted was one of my biggest gripes with the forum in the past. These tools exist to moderate content, not to ensure someone gets the final word.

[Elie]

1 hour ago, CLassified3 said:

I did get my answer though in a way.... he just summarized up the entire page of it and closed it. 

I'm not too sure about the decision of closing it. He might be main owner of Trade but maybe mains of other chats want to have a say, though I doubt they'll differ in opinion.

7 minutes ago, Communism said:

Agreed. Threads being prematurely locked or deleted was one of my biggest gripes with the forum in the past. These tools exist to moderate content, not to ensure someone gets the final word.

It was only a few this week. We hear ya. We'll try to lessen it.

[Ryan]

A clear conclusion has been made, thread closed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

im kidding im so funny.

 

On a serious note, I agree, but I think you're overthinking this a bit, very few threads in general discussions are actually closed. The only ones that are, aren't really a discussion and have no need to be open. For example, the thread asking what the first epic power was, the correct answer was given, there is no need for discussion, anything else said would have been off topic. 

 

Remember, the title of this sub forum is GENERALISED, just because the word 'discussion' is in the title, doesn't mean every thread has to be a discussion. This section can be used to ask general questions that are too trivial are not appropriate for the general support, when a sufficient answer is given, there is no 'discussion' needed over a correct answer. 

 

As Brandon said, I only see one thread where this applies, one out of however many hundred threads there are does not seem like a cause for concern to me. 

 

If it becomes a serious issue, I'm sure it will be looked into further. Right now however, I see no problem.

[Maverick]

5 hours ago, CLassified3 said:

I did get my answer though in a way.... he just summarized up the entire page of it and closed it. 

 

You actually deleted your thread.. Then I had to undeleted it and explained to you on xat_Test how that was kind of wrong.

 

You are deleting everyone's opinions when majority of everyone who uses the forum said no to your thread to you created about fairtrade.

 

Thats why it was concluded to your thread to being closed.

 

You were also given a fair reason to your thread, plus if the thread does get re-opened, what else would there be to answer since the answer is basically there. 

 

I am not sure why you would drag on a thread for an answer that will just be repeating itself over and over again - Fairtrade is a guide not a rule.

 

Another reason as well why your thread was closed.

 

Ryan makes a great point in his second paragraph. Which should be addressed directly in this section alone.

 

Why do I feel as if this thread was opened for just that thread. (Maybe).

 

General Support is fine, but all of a sudden General Discussions, so yeah. I think so.

 

Anyways, it was already decided how Trade and fairtrade would run and how it would be handled.

 

On topic, threads aren't being closed for needlessly reasons. You may feel that way, but it's not necessarily true.

 

Threads are fine how they at the moment. 

 

If we see threads closing too often, then we will take it under advisement and improve on that. 

[Christina]

This thread actually was open in second to that thread.  The first thread that it irked me a bit was Tinks thread.

People mentioned me in there and I did not get the chance to comment or give my opinion.

It was not worth me opening a 2nd thread in response...to me that is a bit immature.  I also realize I could of PMd the users

however..since it was done in public.....would have been nice to of had the chance to respond, civilized of course.

 

Anyway, then the fairtrade thread came shortly after.  Yet another thread closed after your comments, or so it had appeared.

People should of had the chance to comment on what you had said.    

 

So often in past threads get closed when someone does not like the topic or is "afraid" they will only create drama.

My point is they should stay open.  The users who are not respectful should be handled instead of threads closing.

 

I am glad to see we can all agree.

 

[Maverick]

What's there to comment on those two threads? Both threads were given a valid reply and closed so it doesn't get out of hand with questions that can already be answered by others post.

 

If we did keep those threads opened, it would just be asked with the same questions over and over, even so in various different ways. Users need to understand that asking the same question in different ways doesn't mean the answer will change, it will still be the same.

 

Further more, if you read Ryan's post his second paragraph, he sums up what this section is in his second paragraph.

 

He deleted his thread because he felt the need to. He asks the same question daily, maybe for hours and was answered multiple times on xat_Test. He would continue to ask the same question over and over and given then same reply over and over again. He also felt the need to open a thread about it too, but then was given a valid answer. (Not saying it's wrong to open threads about anything, but when given the proper answer multiple times, then it does seem that the user doesn't understand. So we take time and answer the threads properly so they can understand).

 

Some threads may be closed in the process like those two, but if anything we are on chats or the forum where they can private message us into more details.

 

The thread you're referring to, Elie closed it for a valid reason because it was given a proper answer and if anyone else ask that question, they can just be directed to that thread and get a better understanding.

[Christina]

18 minutes ago, Maverick said:

What's there to comment on those two threads? Both threads were given a valid reply and closed so it doesn't get out of hand with questions that can already be answered by others post. Further more, if you read Ryan's post his second paragraph, he sums up what this section is in his second paragraph.

 

He deleted his thread because he felt the need to when his question was answered multiple times on xat_Test. He would continue to ask the same question over and over and given then same reply over and over again. He also felt the need to open a thread about it too, but then was given a valid answer. (Not saying it's wrong to open threads about anything, but when given the proper answer multiple times, it does seem that the user doesn't understand).

 

The thread you're referring to, Elie closed it for a valid reason because it was given a proper answer and if anyone else ask that question, they can just be directed to that thread and get a better understanding.

Honestly..this is exactly what I am talking about.  Who are you or anyone else to say whats there to comment or to make users feel their opinion don't count?  We aren't all on test to see discussion there.  Discussion there should be irrelevant to discussion here.  I understood someone else deleted the thread first.  But that is after the fact of this post.  To us..it looked as if threads were just being closed.  So Tinks thread was closed due to proper answer?  Next time he can reword it better.

So it is NOT question form. Since question forms seem to get closed.   The point he had wanted to make was him feeling that users wanted to change the definition.  I didn't ask him to make it. Nick was also very interested.  It went 1 way when he had intended for it to go another. By replying, I COULD have cleared that all up.  So there is purpose.  

 

My point in all of this is the countless users who do not join forums on conversation because they feel their opinion won't matter anyway.  My point is sitting on a chat and listening to users say things like this.  My point is making the moderator team see this so it can change and does not happen in the future.  You guys have a goal to populate forum?  Then show the common users their opinions matter!!

 

[Maverick]

30 minutes ago, Christina said:

Honestly..this is exactly what I am talking about.  Who are you or anyone else to say whats there to comment or to make users feel their opinion don't count?  We aren't all on test to see discussion there.  Discussion there should be irrelevant to discussion here.  I understood someone else deleted the thread first.  But that is after the fact of this post.  To us..it looked as if threads were just being closed.  So Tinks thread was closed due to proper answer?  Next time he can reword it better.

So it is NOT question form. Since question forms seem to get closed.   The point he had wanted to make was him feeling that users wanted to change the definition.  I didn't ask him to make it. Nick was also very interested.  It went 1 way when he had intended for it to go another. By replying, I COULD have cleared that all up.  So there is purpose.  

 

My point in all of this is the countless users who do not join forums on conversation because they feel their opinion won't matter anyway.  My point is sitting on a chat and listening to users say things like this.  My point is making the moderator team

see this so it can change and does not happen in the future.  You guys have a goal to populate forum?  Then show the common users their opinions matter!!

 

Let's break down your post, shall we. ^_^

 

I never implied or said anything to not make users post count, because their post does count. If you go back to the fairtrade's post, it does show you that I took some users opinions and applied them which I appreciate very much. 

 

You don't have to be on xat_Test, the user can be himself with the question ready and it would be answered. The thread he made was for me to answer and get some users to have a discussion on that topic. Even though it was provided with a valid answer, you yet continued to be on the same subject. So I'm not sure what you're on about there.

 

This is what we are talking about, dragging on a thread and being on the same subject. 

 

How is the discussion there irrelevant when it's the same question he asked there the same question as on here? Quite the contrary. 

 

You are contradicting yourself. You're having a discussion with others on chat (maybe), yet it's somehow relevant to here and there? But the discussions I have on xat_Test and here is not. Doesn't make sense. 

 

Changes were here made and improved in the past two days. I did say I took some users opinions and put them in place. Now, it's matter of that before everyone catches up.

 

Ask Elie on why he closed the thread. I think it was fine to close that thread. If you don't like threads being closed, then private message him and have him explain.

 

This was bound to create some sort of drama. Quite the controversy thread. 

 

As for the forum, it's really much more populated than it was when we were on vBulletin.

[Christina]

1 hour ago, Maverick said:

Let's break down your post, shall we. ^_^

 

I never implied or said anything to not make users post count, because their post does count. If you go back to the fairtrade's post, it does show you that I took some users opinions and applied them which I appreciate very much. 

 

You don't have to be on xat_Test, the user can be himself with the question ready and it would be answered. The thread he made was for me to answer and get some users to have a discussion on that topic. Even though it was provided with a valid answer, you continue to be on the same subject. So I'm not sure what you're on about there.

 

How is the discussion there irrelevant when it's the same question he asked there the same question as on here? Quite the contrary. 

 

You are contradicting yourself. You're having a discussion with others on chat, yet it's somehow relevant to here and there? But the discussions I have on xat_Test and here is not. Doesn't make sense. 

 

Changes were here made and improved in the past two days. I did say I took some users opinions and put them in place.

 

Ask Elie on why he closed the thread. I think it was fine to close that thread. If you don't like threads being closed, then private message him and have him explain.

 

This was bound to create some sort of drama. Quite the controversy thread. 

 

As for the forum, it's really much more populated than it was when we were on vBulletin.

 

 

There is a difference when you make it seem as though a thread was closed DUE to continual  discussion on test vs me saying people on chat are feeling their opinions do not matter

when we are encouraging them to join forums.  You are trying to make this about 2 posts.  I am talking in general.  I said I am glad we can all agree that general discussion should not be closed

prematurely.  There is also a difference is you saying "what is to comment on", that statement alone takes away the users opinion or right to it.  While I agree, alot was said and clarified, perhaps

2 weeks from now someone comes along and has an amazing idea to contribute.

 

Another reason perhaps, is 2 months from now, should someone else feel the need to close threads, we could revisit the topic instead of making new.

 

As for the forum...look at activity now vs 1 month ago.  Its the same users posting..same ones replying.  Look to the future.

 

[Maverick]

What's the difference though? You're having discussions about this thread, fairtrade's thread or the by TinkerDoodle.

 

/What's there to comment on/ doesn't mean it's taking away anyone's rights. It's simply asking a question and then being answered, or giving an answer to their answer.

 

Did you even check the poll results? Majority of those users said no, so it was no and closed. That's about it. 

 

How is encouraging users relevant to this topic? Users can join if they want on their own. You don't have to force or encourage anyone to join. 

 

It still doesn't change the fact that threads are being answered sufficiently and nor being closed for needlessly reasons. 

 

I think you're overthinking all of this right now and looking for an answer which is still being given to you.

 

There's discussions happening through out the forum and on chats are very similar, so it's still relevant.

 

As for forum activity, that's within my reach and anyone's reach. Users come and go, we cannot stop that. As I previously said though, activity has actually increased across the forum and we've gotten better feedback's than we did in years.

 

If anyone's got a new idea within those two weeks, then I'm sure a discussion will be brought up.

[TinkerDoodle]

I actually have a few comments about what your reply when it comes to don't sell a power at its peak, and what class said about us punishing people jerks who sell too low and who sell too high, I also have a few comments about tinas remark when she said what is considered trolling, what if someone's does want to sell much lower than a price and vice versa, should they be punished? Yes his main question has been answered but like every discussion, it evolved much more than that, more questions developed in that topic and since it's locked we can't talk about it. Yes theres is a poll, but look at the overwhelming responses, people actually had something to say of the matter. But I'm glad you heard us out, because that's what makes any forum/chat successful, an understanding of what the people are saying from the staff and a constent respect of the staff from the users. 

 

And about my topic, I did ask a question and it was answered so there was no use of having it opened, but I find it funny how someone called a certain former volunteer out saying that topic was based on them, completely contradicting their own statement. But that's a seperate discussion and it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. 

 

 

Btw Maverick, it's TinkerDoodle, not ThinkerDoodle.

[Christina]

Maverick I have tried putting end to this topic with you 2 and now 3 times.  Yet..you keep trying to pull me in.

I would love to hear other users opinions in general.    Have a nice day!

[Maverick]

As long as this threads open, I am free to comment on it with my opinion  ^_^ 

 

You can pick to ignore my comments, or feel free to answer them however you like.

 

I am actually having a nice day, thanks for asking. 

 

You're mentioned 2 threads, the fairtrade's thread and the thread about Volunteer Emeriti title - http://prntscr.com/asz9bc

 

You quickly opened a thread because of those threads. Who wouldn't notice that?

 

Plus, you have ignored everything above as I said above. Those threads are answered properly, but you're still continuing to drag them here. 

 

As long as they are mentioned, then I will answer. 

 

So that's actually 2 threads, so I am not sure what you're on about. 

[Daniel]

20 hours ago, TinkerDoodle said:

His word isn't law.

When it comes to anything trade, actually, his word is law. He's the main owner. Why should a thread be kept open if the point of the thread is to debate if fairtrade should be come a "rule" rather than being a guide if the main owner of the chat said that it won't be changed? An absolute answer has been given, discussion ended.

 

As Brandon said, there's only one thread that comes under the points discussed in your post. Btw Tinker, the white knighting is getting old, bud.

 

Also, I don't see how this affects activity at all? Look back at the old forum, obviously there was a boost when the new one was introduced, but the same users who posted there are also the users posting here.