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Should Fairtrade be more enforced?


Should Fairtrade be more enforced?  

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  1. 1. Should fairtrade be enforced more?

    • Yes
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    • I am not sure at this time
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I have seen many users selling over priced the fairtrade guide says. Winner is a good example. Supply and demand is a good example. Fairtrade barely gets updated anyways and when it does, it needs to be updated again. 

 

Here is the question:

 

Do you think fairtrade should be more enforced? Why or why not? 

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Yeah fairtrade could be updated more, but maybe your forgetting some people have school/college/uni, so they cant keep track of this all the time.

 

It depends on the situation, if users are quoting silly prices then yes it should, but if its like 200 xats different I don't see an issue with it

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2 minutes ago, Paul said:

Yeah fairtrade could be updated more, but maybe your forgetting some people have school/college/uni, so they cant keep track of this all the time.

 

It depends on the situation, if users are quoting silly prices then yes it should, but if its like 200 xats different I don't see an issue with it

A good example. winner. fairtrade price 1000-1300 and it's selling over 3-5k on trade 

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Just now, CLassified3 said:

A good example. winner. fairtrade price 1000-1300 and it's selling over 3-5k on trade 

then yes, it should be enforced if its huge pries like that, but it should be down to the staff t decide if they think its being "abused"

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1 minute ago, Paul said:

then yes, it should be enforced if its huge pries like that, but it should be down to the staff t decide if they think its being "abused"

I do agree with that, but I think that users are getting to greedy on trade chat ..... 

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Trade's fair trading guide is being updated frequently. I'm pretty sure that the people who update it put a lot of effort into this.

 

You may feel like it's not being updated frequently but it's a bit more complicated than you think it is. There are a lot of users trying to false up powers and most of users takes the fair trading guide as the most reliable source for power prices... so the people who update it need to be careful and it's not that easy.

 

It would be a bit complicated to enforce it more. Mods already have to deal with user's questions, complaints and reports, have to watch main chat, kick and ban users and make sure that the chat is being run smoothly. We cannot require mods to know all prices for all powers... but yeah, I think it would be good if we could stop users who are clearly abusing prices.

 

6 minutes ago, CLassified3 said:

I do agree with that, but I think that users are getting to greedy on trade chat ..... 

Everybody wants to make profit... Winner is currently "limited" because it can't be purchased from xat's store at the moment due to the quiz being broken so they'll obviously try to put the price up because there's a high demand.

 

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I wish it were possible to narrow down the price of everypower a bit more too, though I appreciate Paul and Arthur's points that it's not that easy. =)

 

Both Fexbots and Ocean say 'Everypower costs 304,978 - 330,301 xats'. That's a massive price gap by anyone's standards (enough xats to buy over 5 years' worth of days). It gives users an excuse to charge excessive amounts too!

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Ok, I'm curious: how is the fairtrade price actually determined? Is it based on some hidden record of power transactions that xat maintains, or is it just determined by what a few people speculate the value to be? If it's the latter, It's really no surprise that there are a few issues.

 

Also, while there is a somewhat complicated relationship between the two, the prices that users pay for a power should determine its fairtrade value, not the other way around.

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The bots use my fairtrade still...I am almost positive.

First of all any new limited power fluctuates.

There is also the difference between morning users vs night users.

Example for me, in EST, night users pay cheaper prices, then morning users.

It is easier to sell powers in the morning, as well.

Night time users make alot of the BULK collectors though...so it is often easier to get powers.

 

There are always a group of friends upping a power.  When they decide to release even a handful of these powers, the market crashes.

In calculations, we try to take the average price for the week.  That is the average price it is going for ON the trade chats.

 

It is all based on calculations, monitoring who has what powers, who is collecting what, and what is being traded.

There is never anything easy about doing fairtrade.  You also must take into consideration ALL of the false trades.

People will state they are buying/selling for a price and then trade to other accounts and friends.

 

On the topic of EP.  It is always cheaper to sell EP complete then it is to sell each power separate.  That is WHY

you have the gap.  People like the option of selling it together though, but as a trader, if you took the time, you could make

alot more profit.

 

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7 minutes ago, Christina said:

The bots use my fairtrade still...I am almost positive.

 

Negative. I can't say for other bot providers but FEXBots is using Trade's fairtrade.

 

29 minutes ago, Communism said:

Ok, I'm curious: how is the fairtrade price actually determined? Is it based on some hidden record of power transactions that xat maintains, or is it just determined by what a few people speculate the value to be? If it's the latter, It's really no surprise that there are a few issues.

 

Also, while there is a somewhat complicated relationship between the two, the prices that users pay for a power should determine its fairtrade value, not the other way around.

 

It's updated by a group of selected users. And yes, the price that users pay for a power determines the fairtrade value.

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59 minutes ago, Christina said:

The bots use my fairtrade still...I am almost positive.

First of all any new limited power fluctuates.

There is also the difference between morning users vs night users.

Example for me, in EST, night users pay cheaper prices, then morning users.

It is easier to sell powers in the morning, as well.

Night time users make alot of the BULK collectors though...so it is often easier to get powers.

 

There are always a group of friends upping a power.  When they decide to release even a handful of these powers, the market crashes.

In calculations, we try to take the average price for the week.  That is the average price it is going for ON the trade chats.

 

It is all based on calculations, monitoring who has what powers, who is collecting what, and what is being traded.

There is never anything easy about doing fairtrade.  You also must take into consideration ALL of the false trades.

People will state they are buying/selling for a price and then trade to other accounts and friends.

 

On the topic of EP.  It is always cheaper to sell EP complete then it is to sell each power separate.  That is WHY

you have the gap.  People like the option of selling it together though, but as a trader, if you took the time, you could make

alot more profit.

 

 

Never noticed that really.. I know that all powers go up and down every once in a while and I never knew it is easier to buy at night and sell in the morning ...

I do know about the group of friends upping and downing a power as well. 

 

Wait - I'm confused ... So if people sell 100 eggy for let's say 150 each if it is 150-300 on trade, then the market will crash??

 

I do see sketchy users sometimes getting everypower one second and then the next second they have purple and a good amount of xats.. 

 

I feel that users are too greedy getting profit. I have some time, but there are people who buy too cheap as well. I guess trade users are just getting too greedy. It seems that one second you are forced to buy high and when you don't want that power anymore you are forced to sell low... Like a group of traders gang up on you for a price ... like the pearl dealers in that book ....

 

1 hour ago, Crow said:

I wish it were possible to narrow down the price of everypower a bit more too, though I appreciate Paul and Arthur's points that it's not that easy. =)

 

Both Fexbots and Ocean say 'Everypower costs 304,978 - 330,301 xats'. That's a massive price gap by anyone's standards (enough xats to buy over 5 years' worth of days). It gives users an excuse to charge excessive amounts too!

 

I do as well. people sell it way cheaper than that and way more expensive than that ... 

 

Quote

-Snip my text- 

I just feel that the trade users are abusing prices by using friends to trade.

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Not persay crash but per your example...

Say I sell 100 eggy for 150 each..that now releases 100 eggy into the market and lowers the fairtrade.

For the following 2 weeks people may now only be willing to pay 130-140 because it is  easier to obtain now.

 

I prob gave away Trades big secrets!  But having owned it 7 years..I do know the real deal and the chat.

 

Trade is about greed in general TBH.  There is little anyone can do about it.  It is about making that profit for 70%

of the users.

 

However..for my 7 years, and continual on tr4de, staff gives back!  This is WHY staff under me always gave days and powers to those without.

I prob. in my lifetime have given over 3 Million away.  This isn't to gloat.  Its just something that I strongly believe in in giving back to the xat community

or in starting the next generation of traders by giving them that first power to invest.

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4 hours ago, Christina said:

Not persay crash but per your example...

Say I sell 100 eggy for 150 each..that now releases 100 eggy into the market and lowers the fairtrade.

For the following 2 weeks people may now only be willing to pay 130-140 because it is  easier to obtain now.

 

I prob gave away Trades big secrets!  But having owned it 7 years..I do know the real deal and the chat.

 

Trade is about greed in general TBH.  There is little anyone can do about it.  It is about making that profit for 70%

of the users.

 

However..for my 7 years, and continual on tr4de, staff gives back!  This is WHY staff under me always gave days and powers to those without.

I prob. in my lifetime have given over 3 Million away.  This isn't to gloat.  Its just something that I strongly believe in in giving back to the xat community

or in starting the next generation of traders by giving them that first power to invest.

Actually that was a big help... I never knew why people were trying to buy powers so cheaply and trying to rip me off 

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I think weekly updates to the fairtrades would be the most efficient way to do so if you really want to spend time updating it, not like it matters much anyways because like everyone else stated here, most people don't really follow the guides and have their own different methods for selling powers (even if some of them may seem unfair there isn't really much that we can do about it, since there's always people who want to squeeze out every little xat like it's extra credit). Honestly the only people I've seen who actually use fairtrade religiously were usually those new to trading. 

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4 hours ago, CLassified3 said:

Exactly my point. It seems they just rip people off too much.. that's why I'm asking this 

It would be a completely different story if you were the doing the "ripping off". If someone is willing to pay 500 xats for a power only worth 200 then who in the right mind would say no?

 

Fairtrade is a guide, it's not a set of rules. It's so that users can look up a power and get a rough guide, it was never meant to be 100% accurate and should never be used as a 'set in stone' value for a price of a power.

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A lot of the time people sell for more expensive to profit, and it is likely they know the true price. The guide should give an estimate of the true price - it will NEVER be entirely accurate. When people sell far over the estimated price, it is likely they are new, trolling, or simply stupid. It isn't that it should be more enforced since it is an ESTIMATE of the true value, rather it is a case of fairtrade should be updated more often so that it is more accurate at a given time. Many may argue that it this is hard due to fluctuations in a power price, but this does not matter - an estimate that is closer to the true value is better than one is far off, even if the range is larger.

 

I understand that the guide is updated (relatively) frequently, but I have worked with updating fairtrade before, and the people who did it didn't update the prices when they fluctuated - they waited until the price was stable. I believe this is incorrect and should be changed.

 

If a separate poll was made, "Should fairtrade be updated more frequently (and when prices fluctuate)", I would definitely say yes.

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5 minutes ago, Flake said:

If a separate poll was made, "Should fairtrade be updated more frequently", I would definitely say yes.

Updating fairtrade frequently is easier said than done. The prices of powers change almost daily, it is extremely hard to keep track of all the prices, even if you do hang out in trade all the time. Maverick might be able to make a team entirely dedicated to updating ft but that will still be a bit difficult. It's extremely hard of keeping track of every single price of the 350+ powers. 

 

 

I agree what you said and what many others have said of fairtrade being a guide of showing users the general price of a power. Enforcing fairtrade strictly means having the economy based on fairtrade and the people who edit it. And that is a scary thing. Fairtrade should just keep on being updated as is. If you think a price is wrong or confused about a price pc trade staff they should know the prices of powers. 

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8 minutes ago, TinkerDoodle said:

Updating fairtrade frequently is easier said than done. The prices of powers change almost daily, it is extremely hard to keep track of all the prices, even if you do hang out in trade all the time. Maverick might be able to make a team entirely dedicated to updating ft but that will still be a bit difficult. It's extremely hard of keeping track of every single price of the 350+ powers. 

 

 

I agree what you said and what many others have said of fairtrade being a guide of showing users the general price of a power. Enforcing fairtrade strictly means having the economy based on fairtrade and the people who edit it. And that is a scary thing. Fairtrade should just keep on being updated as is. If you think a price is wrong or confused about a price pc trade staff they should know the prices of powers. 

 

I'm aware, I updated it myself. But again, time will always be an issue, as you said. However, updating it more frequently will NEVER be a downfall. A possible solution would be to have more people update fairtrade which would greatly reduce the time taken. And as I said, they should update it as soon as the power fluctuates, as opposed to waiting for the price to become stable.

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If I want to sell a hammer on ebay for $10000, I can do it. If I want to sell purple on trade for 300k, I can do it (unless of course it's truly ridiculous and an obvious troll).

 

In both situations, nobody will buy what I'm selling, but I shouldn't be punished for trying. Nothing new should be enforced. Like Stah said, it is a guide, not a rule.

 

I do think it would be good to update it more though.

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1 hour ago, Stah said:

It would be a completely different story if you were the doing the "ripping off". If someone is willing to pay 500 xats for a power only worth 200 then who in the right mind would say no?

 

Fairtrade is a guide, it's not a set of rules. It's so that users can look up a power and get a rough guide, it was never meant to be 100% accurate and should never be used as a 'set in stone' value for  a price of a power.

 

I know that Stah. I am just saying sometimes people can go up to 2k+ over fairtrade value.. 

 

I do agree it needs to be updated as well.

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9 minutes ago, CLassified3 said:

 

I know that Stah. I am just saying sometimes people can go up to 2k+ over fairtrade value..

It's your responsibility to see if that is the right price for a power, there are jerks out there that over price their powers but there will always be jerks like that for as long as xat exists. 

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1 hour ago, Steven said:

If I want to sell a hammer on ebay for $10000, I can do it. If I want to sell purple on trade for 300k, I can do it (unless of course it's truly ridiculous and an obvious troll).

 

In both situations, nobody will buy what I'm selling, but I shouldn't be punished for trying. Nothing new should be enforced. Like Stah said, it is a guide, not a rule.

 

I do think it would be good to update it more though.

 

Agreed... people shouldn't be punished if they sell for stupidly high amounts or buy for stupidly low amounts. They will eventually give up because, obviously, they will not be able to sell/buy the power - if they continue and are obviously trolling, they should be kicked/banned. However, the issue arises when people sell for too cheap or buy for too much. This is the main reason why the guide has been put in place - to stop these instances from occurring where people have a large lack of knowledge of the true price at the current time. This is why it is bad when prices fluctuate - people may buy for far too much or sell for far too low than the current price at the time, and this is especially an issue considering people who update fairtrade don't update when the price has fluctuated - they wait until the price is consistent. This is the main usefulness of the guide, to stop this from occurring. If you think about it this way, the only possible solution to this is to enforce the guide more. However, I rarely actually see anyone buying for far too high or selling for far too low - a large majority of trade informs themselves of the current price before selling/buying. For this reason, it doesn't really need to be enforced more.

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48 minutes ago, Flake said:

 However, the issue arises when people sell for too cheap or buy for too much.

 

Sometimes you just want to buy/sell a power fastly, it may look as an issue when it's only a question of time spent on Trade.

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