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The term "Volunteer"


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A little while ago, Forum Moderators were removed from the "Volunteers" page on the xat Wiki and I think that this was wrongly done.   On xat, the term "Volunteer" really only applies to tic

I agree with most of your points, but there does need to be some specific way to refer to those who respond to tickets. I agree that the term "volunteer" should be broad and include the wiki people an

Well, I didn't really mean half a brain but, you know what I mean - it has less requirements than something like smiley making.   I personally don't really care about topic in general becaus

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Personally, I think the term 'volunteer' would lose a LOT of prestige.

 

Do you think it would be unfair to the current volunteers that have earned it over the years? =)

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10 minutes ago, Crow said:

Personally, I think the term 'volunteer' would lose a LOT of prestige.

 

Do you think it would be unfair to the current volunteers that have earned it over the years? =)

I think you totally skipped over the part of the post which states that they all are important in their own ways. Although ticket volunteer may take longer to earn due to the handling of sensitive information and users in general, doesn't mean their contributions outweigh those of the editors, smiley makers who give us powers every week, and especially translators who spend countless hours translating articles.

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Forum mods were removed from the volunteers page because this forum has its own staff list built-in.

 

Wiki Editors used to be listed on the volunteers page before too, but they decided to move to their own staff list too.

 

I don't think its unfair or anything, there's just no need to have them listed there when we have a staff list here, it would just be one more page that would require constant updating.

 

But yeah, many of them spend a lot of time helping xat but I feel like they're being well acknowledged and having them all on this volunteers page would just confuse users.

 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Arthur said:

Forum mods were removed from the volunteers page because this forum has its own staff list built-in.

 

Wiki Editors used to be listed on the volunteers page before too, but they decided to move to their own staff list too.

 

I don't think its unfair or anything, there's just no need to have them listed there when we have a staff list here, it would just be one more page that would require constant updating.

 

But yeah, many of them spend a lot of time helping xat but I feel like they're being well acknowledged and having them all on this volunteers page would just confuse users.

First point is irrelevant because this was way before the new forum.

 

Second point is also irrelevant because they were moved because of the same reason as forum mods (they're not "volunteers").

 

Oh, third point is also irrelevant because... it's less pages over all to edit if it's all in one place? LMAO

 

It will confuse users? I guess everyone thinks Junior is a ticket volunteer, because he's currently listed as a smiley maker on the volunteers wiki page? No, it doesn't confuse users at all. There's nothing confusing about the layout of the page, and there never was. Every type of volunteer has (there's currently two) a different heading with a preface sentence above the table of users, as such:

FNld1AV.png

BbcByXR.png

 

Why are smiley makers any more of a volunteer than editors, translators and forum mods? xat volunteers, as defined on the wiki page, are "[users who are] not xat staff, [but] they volunteer their time to help xat". Why don't those users fit into that category? Oh that's right, they fit the exact definition of a [xat] volunteer. 

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Of course there a lot of voluntary support roles on xat. That doesn't mean they should all be listed on one page or that they should all be referred to as volunteers. The reason, which I think you're forgetting, is that the term volunteer on xat means something more than what it means anywhere else. You have to take that into consideration. Do they volunteer? Yes. Are they a volunteer? Maybe, but probably not. It means something unique to be called a volunteer on xat.

 

Whether we should change this is made mostly irrelevant due to the difficulty of such a monumental task. Our unique reference when we use the term volunteer on xat has been used for years. How could we suddenly change it? The message wouldn't get across very clearly and as effectively as it would need to.

 

For some reason you think it's ridiculous that having a page with more listed people would confuse users. Yes, it actually would confuse users. It has confused users counties times in the past. It primarily confuses people whose native language isn't English. "[Insert forum moderator's name] is a volunteer?" That type of question has come up many times before, and we know each time that when the user says volunteer they mean ticket volunteer.

 

Why is it so important that everyone who does something for xat be listed? "I've done something for xat, so I demand recognition!" That's not how it works, especially with how we (on xat) define the term volunteer.

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27 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Why is it so important that everyone who does something for xat be listed? "I've done something for xat, so I demand recognition!" That's not how it works, especially with how we (on xat) define the term volunteer.

 

But, if we go by importance of role, I would argue that smiley makers are currently the most important people on xat at current to keep it alive. Almost anyone with half a brain could answer tickets, and yet only a select few can create smileys up to a reasonable standard. Without powers, this site would, almost definitely, be gone. The definition of a volunteer is someone who freely offers to take part (in helping xat, in this case), so are smiley makers not technically... 'more' of a Volunteer than ticket volunteers? If so, why are they far less credited than ticket volunteers if they play what is, in my opinion, the most important role that requires a far higher extent of knowledge than simply answering tickets?

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27 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Of course there a lot of voluntary support roles on xat. That doesn't mean they should all be listed on one page or that they should all be referred to as volunteers. The reason, which I think you're forgetting, is that the term volunteer on xat means something more than what it means anywhere else. You have to take that into consideration. Do they volunteer? Yes. Are they a volunteer? Maybe, but probably not. It means something unique to be called a volunteer on xat.

 

Whether we should change this is made mostly irrelevant due to the difficulty of such a monumental task. Our unique reference when we use the term volunteer on xat has been used for years. How could we suddenly change it? The message wouldn't get across very clearly and as effectively as it would need to.

 

For some reason you think it's ridiculous that having a page with more listed people would confuse users. Yes, it actually would confuse users. It has confused users counties times in the past. It primarily confuses people whose native language isn't English. "[Insert forum moderator's name] is a volunteer?" That type of question has come up many times before, and we know each time that when the user says volunteer they mean ticket volunteer.

 

Why is it so important that everyone who does something for xat be listed? "I've done something for xat, so I demand recognition!" That's not how it works, especially with how we (on xat) define the term volunteer.

I don't think you really understood the goal, if you will, of this post.

 

I'm not stating that we set up a mass televised brainwash that will change everyone's meaning of "a volunteer". Only that those who "officially" volunteer to help xat in any notable way be listed on the official page of xat's volunteers. When a user asks for a volunteer (if these groups are moved to the page) we aren't going to say "Which type of volunteer? Do you need a forum mod?". The meaning of a volunteer isn't going to change, only that users who do things for xat's benefit be acknowledged through official means.

 

"[Insert forum moderator's name] is a volunteer?" I think you mean "Maverick is a volunteer?". Yes, that question has been brought up, and still does. The way he brings us messages and updates from the heavens of xat sure does lead to some questions.

 

Well, I mean, all people who send edits (even minuscule ones) are listed on a wiki page. Any users who helped xat during the closed beta test of mobile are listed also. I don't see any argument for "not everyone should get recognition" or "this will take too much work" when pages are being updated every single time someone new submits and edit and it's published.

 

You (being a volunteer) might enjoy the pride of the volunteer title, and you can keep that pride. But there's others who translate and edit xat's official wiki and would like some recognition as someone who volunteers their time for xats benefit, and not their own! The meaning of a volunteer isn't going to change, as we all know what people mean when they're looking for a volunteer, but other people also volunteer their time to help xat in ways they really are not thanked enough for (in my opinion) who also deserve to have the "title" of being a volunteer for xat (albeit not a xat volunteer ;))

 

Also, why are smiley makers also listed on the volunteers page, surely they also confuse the meaning of "volunteer"?

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@Flake You bring up some interesting points that I can definitely agree with. It is certainly harder to become a smiley maker than it is to become a ticket volunteer. I'm not really sure what can be done to give them more credit. They are already on the volunteer page. I must add though that not just anyone with half a brain can answer tickets. In the history of all volunteers, I feel it's safe to say that not all have been as qualified to the necessary level. That specific point is a little off-topic, but I felt the need to respond to it.

 

@Stah I would be lying if I said I didn't take a lot of pride in being a volunteer. It's no lie that many people really want to be a ticket volunteer. I personally worked hard for it, and I was glad I was finally recognized. I don't want you to get the wrong idea about what I'm saying, but I must note that there is something a little special in being listed on that page. It's so easy to become a wiki translator, and it's not too hard to become a wiki editor. What about becoming a ticket volunteer? It's so much harder, and it involves so much more responsibility. Like I mentioned, I don't want you to get the wrong idea with what I'm saying: It's not mainly about recognition, but I still feel the need to talk about it. What really matters it the idea that when anyone on xat uses the term volunteer, most people instantly recognize it to mean ticket volunteer. I personally would prefer a different term for ticket volunteers, but that's not how it's set up, and nobody can really change that now. I'm not really trying to make an appeal to tradition, but I'm sure you can agree it doesn't sound feasible to accomplish what you're suggesting.

 

Your main concern is the fact that the term volunteer on xat usually refers to ticket volunteers when it should refer to other types of volunteers. Like I already mentioned in my first reply, someone can volunteer, but they might not be referred to as a volunteer. It sounds weird, but that's how it works. In order to start calling more groups of people volunteers, we would need to change the way we refer to a ticket volunteer. There would obviously need to be some type of unique way to refer to a ticket volunteer. We can't all just be grouped together with one term, because we all have different roles. It would send the wrong message.

 

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1 minute ago, Brandon said:

I would be lying if I said I didn't take a lot of pride in being a volunteer. It's no lie that many people really want to be a ticket volunteer. I personally worked hard for it, and I was glad I was finally recognized. I don't want you to get the wrong idea about what I'm saying, but I must note that there is something a little special in being listed on that page. It's so easy to become a wiki translator, and it's not too hard to become a wiki editor. What about becoming a ticket volunteer? It's so much harder, and it involves so much more responsibility. Like I mentioned, I don't want you to get the wrong idea with what I'm saying: It's not mainly about recognition, but I still feel the need to talk about it. What really matters it the idea that when anyone on xat uses the term volunteer, most people instantly recognize it to mean ticket volunteer. I personally would prefer a different term for ticket volunteers, but that's not how it's set up, and nobody can really change that now. I'm not really trying to make an appeal to tradition, but I'm sure you can agree it doesn't sound feasible to accomplish what you're suggesting.

 

Your main concern is the fact that the term volunteer on xat usually refers to ticket volunteers when it should refer to other types of volunteers. Like I already mentioned in my first reply, someone can volunteer, but they might not be referred to as a volunteer. It sounds weird, but that's how it works. In order to start calling more groups of people volunteers, we would need to change the way we refer to a ticket volunteer. There would obviously need to be some type of unique way to refer to a ticket volunteer. We can't all just be grouped together with one term, because we all have different roles. It would send the wrong message.

 

No, no, no, no!

 

I specifically said there doesn't need to be a change of how we refer to ticket volunteers in xat, only that they deserve to be recognized as official volunteers for xat on the wiki page.

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1 minute ago, Stah said:

No, no, no, no!

 

I specifically said there doesn't need to be a change of how we refer to ticket volunteers in xat, only that they deserve to be recognized as official volunteers for xat on the wiki page.

Based on the way we currently use the term volunteer, it would not be reasonable to suddenly start calling all these people official volunteers. What I'm saying is that in order to start doing so, we would need to change the way we refer to ticket volunteers.

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1 minute ago, Stah said:

No, no, no, no!

 

I specifically said there doesn't need to be a change of how we refer to ticket volunteers in xat, only that they deserve to be recognized as official volunteers for xat on the wiki page.

I agree with most of your points, but there does need to be some specific way to refer to those who respond to tickets. I agree that the term "volunteer" should be broad and include the wiki people and ticket people, but if there isn't something differentiating the different categories of volunteers, there would definitely be confusion. "Volunteer" is just the wrong word to refer to ticket people, and should be the overall term for anyone volunteering for xat.

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1 minute ago, Steven said:

I agree with most of your points, but there does need to be some specific way to refer to those who respond to tickets. I agree that the term "volunteer" should be broad and include the wiki people and ticket people, but if there isn't something differentiating the different categories of volunteers, there would definitely be confusion. "Volunteer" is just the wrong word to refer to ticket people, and should be the overall term for anyone volunteering for xat.

Alright, I agree here. However, as Brandon said, it may be difficult to just change everything. Sucks.

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Just now, Stah said:

Alright, I agree here. However, as Brandon said, it may be difficult to just change everything. Sucks.

I don't think "rebranding" (for lack of better terms) the volunteer aspect of xat would be nearly as difficult or confusing as he is making it out to be. It may take some time to change all the graphics/pages/titles, but companies change logos, they change terms they use, slogans, titles, etc. all the time, and if it was so difficult, they never would.

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volunteer
ˌvɒlənˈtɪə/
noun
 
  1. 1.
    a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task.
    "a call for volunteers to act as foster-parents"
    synonyms: subject, participant, case, client, patient; 
    informalguinea pig
    "during the investigation, each volunteer was studied three times"
    •  
    •  
  2. 2.
    a person who works for an organization without being paid.
    "the railway is operated solely by volunteers"
    •  
       
verb
 
  1. 1.
    freely offer to do something.
    "140 employees volunteered for redundancy"
     
       
     
  2. 2.
    work for an organization without being paid.
    "volunteering is an easy way to get involved in practical conservation"
    synonyms: offer one's services, present oneself, step forward, come forward,make oneself available
    "he volunteered as an ambulance driver on the Italian front"

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    So has anyone thought of simply:

    • "Ticket/Support Volunteers"
    • "Wiki Volunteers"
    • "Forum Volunteers"

     

    Simply, to stop confusion, DEFINE WHAT THEY VOLUNTEER? Is it that hard. 

     

    I agree, the current definition of volunteer on xat gives certain users way too much limelight when a lot of other users do equally as much for the site. The term volunteer should be an umbrella term which defines all the roles on xat. 

     

    I actually think DEFINING the term volunteer would be more useful in the long run, because it gives users, especially those who don't speak English, a clearer idea of who to contact regarding their issue. 

     

     

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This has been debated about a lot over the past few years. Being in Brandon's shoes, I get what he' saying. 

 

Let's face it, if Volunteers had the opportunity to do what they do with the contingency that nobody knew that it was them and was all done behind the scenes, I guarantee most wouldn't do it. I did it because yes, there is prestige in being a ticket Volunteer. It's something that is wanted by a lot of people and something special after you achieve it. I personally don't really see the big deal about removing forum mods because they do get their recognition here on the forum, but I can also understand the points you bring up in that having them above smiley makers wouldn't hurt anyone. Yes they do "Volunteer" their time and they should be recognized, but if they really cared about what they were doing than recognition would not be needed. 

 

Unfortunately the term Volunteer can be taken very literal which is why this debate comes up so often. Perhaps sometimes in the future there can be a line drawn to better define each rank. 

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6 hours ago, Stah said:

First point is irrelevant because this was way before the new forum.

FALSE. Jedi did it when the new forum came out, simply because Forum Mods were listed in this staff page.

 

4 hours ago, Brandon said:

 What really matters it the idea that when anyone on xat uses the term volunteer, most people instantly recognize it to mean ticket volunteer. I personally would prefer a different term for ticket volunteers, but that's not how it's set up, and nobody can really change that now. I'm not really trying to make an appeal to tradition, but I'm sure you can agree it doesn't sound feasible to accomplish what you're suggesting.

 

Your main concern is the fact that the term volunteer on xat usually refers to ticket volunteers when it should refer to other types of volunteers. Like I already mentioned in my first reply, someone can volunteer, but they might not be referred to as a volunteer.

I totally agree.

 

Moreover, Wiki Editors were moved because we were welcoming Wiki Translators, we needed more place for our own team.

I honestly think the first purpose of the Volunteers wiki page was to list all people willing to help xat and recognized for it. But at this time, almost everyone on the page was considered a Volunteer. Only few Wiki Editors weren't a Ticket Volunteer, Forum Mods and Ticket Volunteers were the same people... This has changed in the past few years and it seems clearer right now. 

 

Smiley Makers are also on the same page because before Junior became one, all Smiley Makers were Ticket Volunteers. They were kept on the same page for no intentional reasons, no one just felt necessary to move them, and I think it's good enough.

 

PS: When it comes to action, don't forget procedural rationality, we're not, not doing something because it was planned, we just keep it that way because that's good enough.

 

EDIT: Smiley Makers are also listed here: http://util.xat.com/wiki/index.php?title=Power_and_Smiley_Suggestions and I also still think they should be kept on the Volunteers page.

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As Sydno said, the volunteer wiki page was changed cause they wanted to keep "Volunteer" title for "Ticket volunteers".

 

Do we need to merge pages and list everyone on the same page? I think no.

First it will be a mess, between mobilebeta testers, wiki staff, people on special thanks ... They are too many!?

And for most of xat users, the term "Volunteer" means "Ticket volunteer".

 

Of course they are many users who contribute/volunteer their time on/for xat. And they are behind/hidden. But maybe cause they want to stay in the dark?

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I really do not think any should be listed....or categorize them and list them all.

Reason being...they fought so hard to go anonymous on tickets.  So there is NO credibility to who is replying.

I agree wiki editors, contributors, testers, and anyone else that helps xat is just as important.

 

The shame of xat..as Nick stated...they want the acknowledgment.  Moment I was removed from Wiki...a good 6 months 

BEFORE I was no longer volunteer....all anyone talked about on Test or Help was "Tina is no longer volunteer. "

The wiki is xats Bible.  If it is there..it must be so!!!  This is how the users on xat think.

 

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6 minutes ago, Christina said:

I really do not think any should be listed....or categorize them and list them all.

Reason being...they fought so hard to go anonymous on tickets.  So there is NO credibility to who is replying.

I agree wiki editors, contributors, testers, and anyone else that helps xat is just as important.

 

The shame of xat..as Nick stated...they want the acknowledgment.  Moment I was removed from Wiki...a good 6 months 

BEFORE I was no longer volunteer....all anyone talked about on Test or Help was "Tina is no longer volunteer. "

The wiki is xats Bible.  If it is there..it must be so!!!  This is how the users on xat think.

 

But, if they are not listed, they will, kind of, lose this "title" volunteer.

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11 hours ago, Brandon said:

@Flake You bring up some interesting points that I can definitely agree with. It is certainly harder to become a smiley maker than it is to become a ticket volunteer. I'm not really sure what can be done to give them more credit. They are already on the volunteer page. I must add though that not just anyone with half a brain can answer tickets. In the history of all volunteers, I feel it's safe to say that not all have been as qualified to the necessary level. That specific point is a little off-topic, but I felt the need to respond to it.

 

Well, I didn't really mean half a brain but, you know what I mean - it has less requirements than something like smiley making.

 

I personally don't really care about topic in general because I feel it doesn't really matter. The title given to a person such as 'smiley makers', 'wiki translators' should remain the same since it is self-explanatory from their title that they volunteer to help the site.

 

But still, I was just stating that it's sort of weird how people who do things that are less desired are more praised than those who do something that is more desired and is absolutely essential to the survival of the site. It's more of a "that doesn't really make any sense" thing as opposed to "we need to fix this so smiley makers get more recognition!!!!" Both have been given similar credibility in terms of helping the site, but for some reason ticket volunteers are the 'figureheads', if you like. Even though smiley makers do something which I think is more important, they seem to be less trusted and known by users, and I just don't really understand why. For some reason it is perceived that ticket volunteers are the 'absolute' volunteers.

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Controversy. One is saying that every person who does something for xat should be considered as 'volunteer', have equality, while the other one is saying that actual 'volunteers' did hard work to gain that title.

Personally i stick to the second, it should stay as it is, because everyone knows volunteers are the most trusted people, after the admins and it is truly a hard title to gain. To change this now after all this years would only confuse.

 

Also wiki editors/translators have their appreciation here: http://util.xat.com/wiki/index.php?title=Wiki_Editors and forum mods have their appreciation on the forum team, so its pretty fine for me.

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9 hours ago, Sydno said:

FALSE. Jedi did it when the new forum came out, simply because Forum Mods were listed in this staff page.

That's an absolute lie. I was at help when Brandon/Andre/Verite said they're not "volunteers" and they shouldn't be on the page, and then Jedi removed it.

 

I only think that all users should be equally recognized as xat volunteers officially via the wiki page, I don't see a problem at all with adding 3 headings to the volunteer page to give the people who help xat out A LOT a little more recognition.

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1 minute ago, Stah said:

That's an absolute lie. I was at help when Brandon/Andre/Verite said they're not "volunteers" and they shouldn't be on the page, and then Jedi removed it.

 

Jedi modified the page on March 12th. The forum was on few days before. You can check the first topics (I've found threads made on March 7th).

Try to verify the information before saying this is a lie!

 

3 minutes ago, Stah said:

I only think that all users should be equally recognized as xat volunteers officially via the wiki page, I don't see a problem at all with adding 3 headings to the volunteer page to give the people who help xat out A LOT a little more recognition.

 

That would be messy, with around 50+ names. And I don't see why being on the Volunteers page give you more recognition.

As a Wiki Editor, I feel recognized enough being on the Wiki Editors page.

The only users who may complain are the Forum Mods, however 2 of them are already listed somewhere on the wiki and all of them are listed on the forum staff page.

 

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