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Dann

XAT - IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE

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12 minutes ago, dann said:

It's just a matter of removing those who don't produce as much. The volunteering system has been around for a while. my point wasn't that they don't have to do as much since they aren't getting paid. My point was they are regular people just as you and I. They are not bots. You can't expect them to always be answering tickets and not chatting. I'm sure they weren't told : with volunteering comes your right to chat. Let them chat.. let them interact with users... if they aren't doing their job as volunteers, it is up to XAT to remove/replace them.

 

All in all, Just give them time, seems like they are working on change. If you don't like the results they are currently pushing for, then you can comment in the future. But let them work on it and lets see the results that will accumulate. You know if there is change once you stop hearing the amount of users on help chats asking when their 1-2 month old ticket will be answered.

 

I have faith they will work to get the ticket system back on track, once that is completed, I suggest to push for other things that need change on xat. But like anything, in the time being, this will be a 'one step at a time' thing.

 

-Dann

 

Removing ones who don't do as much is also a good idea, because this also sets an expectation for the others volunteers - "If I don't do X amount of work, I'll no longer be a volunteer". Basically, volunteers just need to be given an expectation of the amount of work they should be doing (which is higher than it is now for a lot of volunteers). The only current push for volunteers is the users complaining, which isn't good.

 

As Christina said, only Admins can change what is broken, and at the moment I lack faith in them with regards to fixing what is currently broken based on their reaction to this thread.

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You've been gifted with the knowledge that only a couple of volunteers have access to the delayed departments, yet you keep iterating that a lot of volunteers aren't hitting any sort of expectation, and for reasons I can't fathom we need to pay volunteers or split the team into paid and unpaid. Both of these ideas are just not an option and frankly not good ideas at all.

 

There's literally 2 volunteers in the delayed departments, and they simply don't have enough time to cater to the number of tickets (university, work, life in general). I am also not against the fact that the volunteers in the "middle" aren't in those departments either. They are playing the long game, waiting for someone the current Volunteers in the department are happy to work with (so simply sharing knowledge isn't enough). Admins don't control the support system, Volunteers are looking to fix it as Andre said in the other thread, they are going to add someone else into those departments and hope that it helps.

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1 hour ago, Daniel said:

You've been gifted with the knowledge that only a couple of volunteers have access to the delayed departments, yet you keep iterating that a lot of volunteers aren't hitting any sort of expectation

 

I'm not saying they aren't hitting expectations (although this is true), they aren't given an expectation to answer tickets (i.e through pay or threat of demotion). I've outlined this as one of the reasons why volunteers aren't hitting expectations, so I don't really see what your point is here. You're effectively either agreeing with me or misreading what I said by saying this.

 

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

and for reasons I can't fathom we need to pay volunteers or split the team into paid and unpaid. Both of these ideas are just not an option and frankly not good ideas at all.Both of these ideas are just not an option and frankly not good ideas at all.

 

Why are they not an option? Why are they bad? I understand pay is unlikely to happen, but it doesn't make it a bad option. Is my other idea of having Volunteers demoted when they don't do the necessary work also a bad option?

 

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

There's literally 2 volunteers in the delayed departments, and they simply don't have enough time to cater to the number of tickets (university, work, life in general). I am also not against the fact that the volunteers in the "middle" aren't in those departments either. They are playing the long game, waiting for someone the current Volunteers in the department are happy to work with (so simply sharing knowledge isn't enough).

 

They've been playing the "long game" for quite a while now. What do you mean by someone the Volunteers in department are happy to work with? If they have the knowledge to answer the tickets, they have it, so they should be happy to work with them for this reason. Unless you are implying personal dislike or other personal reasons, which would be pathetic of them.

 

Edit

 

I now realise you could be talking about issues of trust with regards to torches etc, but measuring trust is extremely difficult. If they lack trust in every other volunteer, so be it, but nothing will happen. Nothing will happen until they try seeing how it will pan out. If it doesn't pan out well, they can be demoted. Simple as.

 

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

Admins don't control the support system, Volunteers are looking to fix it as Andre said in the other thread, they are going to add someone else into those departments and hope that it helps.

 

I wasn't really specifically aiming for the Support System, but I meant quite a lot of the final decisions and changes in general are controlled by the Admins, who at the moment don't look like they will bother with most of these suggestions.

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I noticed that before it was little talk and much was done.
Now there is much talk and little is done.
How long should we continue to talk without making changes?
I have a year since I left, and anyway there were no changes.
Five or more years ago was good, the united world, and they were listening to each other, now they all argue without any reason.
It's upset, after saying that we're all bad.

I do not want to be right, but unfortunately this is the reality now on xat.com.
If I'm wrong, I'm sorry......:):(
I want to cry, :'( not cry because I still love xat.com, that's why I'm here every day....:$
@Admin
Edit: You can change anything but @muffins , it always remains.
LOL :$ 

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20 minutes ago, Bau said:

I noticed that before it was little talk and much was done.
Now there is much talk and little is done.
How long should we continue to talk without making changes?
I have a year since I left, and anyway there were no changes.
Five or more years ago was good, the united world, and they were listening to each other, now they all argue without any reason.
It's upset, after saying that we're all bad.

I do not want to be right, but unfortunately this is the reality now on xat.com.
If I'm wrong, I'm sorry......:):(
I want to cry, :'( not cry because I still love xat.com, that's why I'm here every day....:$
@Admin
Edit: You can change anything but @muffins , it always remains.
LOL :$ 

 

yes bau i agree lol

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3 hours ago, Madison said:

I just think that xat needs to be more careful about who they're making volunteers in the first place- this being people who take their time, actually show a passion for xat, and aren't getting their ranks just because they know the right people at the right time. I could name so many people who aren't volunteers who definitely deserve to be.

 

3 hours ago, Madison said:

There are really only a couple options in regards to the ticket situation.

 

1. Start letting more <trustworthy> people help answer tickets.

2. Take more time to decide who truly does deserve to be a volunteer.

This may come across a little harsh but I'm going to say it anyway, and no, I'm not defending myself, as I am no longer a volunteer (my forum title is misleading)...

 

Every single volunteer on the list right now fits the criteria you've laid out. Everyone on the list deserves the position because they've worked hard on xat over the years and have shown dedication and passion. Nobody simply has their position because they "know someone," and I don't really know how you can make that claim.

 

Also, I understand it is easy for people who don't know what goes into the decisions of who to "hire" to criticize the choices and declare that there are "so many" better options, but frankly, you're wrong. It's easy to sit back and look at the list of people passionate on this forum and say "they'd be a good volunteer, they'd be a good volunteer too," but the reality is that the people selected need to fit under a lot more criteria than just being "trustworthy" (which is an incredibly vague word) or "passionate." There aren't as many candidates as you may think, and some of the candidates you're probably thinking of could be on the radar of admins/volunteers already, but timing is important too.

 

And yes, volunteers "need" time to chat as well, but also they have lives. The truth is that xat is not the #1 priority of any volunteer. Life gets in the way, and everyone has things that they're going to put before answering tickets. Not putting in as much work as some others do shouldn't be seen as them not being "willing" to put in work, but rather, them being unable to put in the work because of their personal lives. Now I do believe if they become too busy (like me) and they hit points where they can't see themselves having more ticket time in the future, stepping down is the right thing to do, but I also understand why some sometimes don't. Unpaid volunteers running the entire support system for a website as complicated as xat is never going to be flawless.

 

I won't comment on the other issues brought up here because they're being analyzed heavily already and I have nothing new to add.

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47 minutes ago, Steven said:

Nobody simply has their position because they "know someone," and I don't really know how you can make that claim.

This also happens w/ contributors, you know, so we know the reason that he said this.

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10 minutes ago, Laming said:

This also happens w/ contributors, you know, so we know the reason that he said this.

Contributors =! volunteers.

 

This also brings up another point that some of the people criticizing the volunteers and contributors in this thread are just mad that they haven't been allowed into these groups. I won't go into more detail, but I will say it's painfully obvious in some cases. I appreciate the people who genuinely don't care about their own "ranks" and are giving their true, unbiased opinions (Karl, Flake, etc.) and I hope the sincere voices in this thread are heard.

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1 hour ago, Steven said:

Nobody simply has their position because they "know someone," and I don't really know how you can make that claim.

I'm going to highlight "simply". Because you do need to know about xat... I agree. BUT there are far more people that deserve it over others. And vols really come in because of who they know. It's just reality. And I'm not trying to bash it. But I really don't know how you don't see it and how you don't understand how people make that claim. You know how the system for picking new vols works, just as much as us. 

 

AGAIN - not picking a side here - BUT it makes no sense to ignore the obvious either.

 

@Steven

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10 minutes ago, dann said:

I'm going to highlight "simply". Because you do need to know about xat... I agree. BUT there are far more people that deserve it over others. And vols really come in because of who they know. It's just reality. And I'm not trying to bash it. But I really don't know how you don't see it and how you don't understand how people make that claim. You know how the system for picking new vols works, just as much as us. 

 

 

@Steven

 

I'd have to agree, and this is the only point I disagree with on Steven's post. There will always be some influence from people they know in deciding whether they become a volunteer. It's inevitable. As an example, a short amount of time after you got Volunteer, Chelly did. Not to bash either one of you, I think you are both good, but it's unlikely that this happened due to pure chance. I could name other cases but I think it's pointless.

 

So you get what I'm saying more, it's like saying "the environment doesn't affect whether someone will commit crimes, only genetics do". That's clearly a false statement, there is bound to be some influence from the environment, but it is impossible to measure the extent to which these environmental factors will contribute to whether someone will commit crimes or not.

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I guess I worded it badly. What I'm saying is that nobody is picked purely because they know someone. Of course most volunteers picked would need to know some others, otherwise there would be no way for the current volunteers to trust the incoming ones. But a common misconception is that volunteers are made over other potential candidates because they have better personal relationships with the current ones, which isn't true. They may be brought up in discussion because current ones know of their work ethic and dedication, but they're not selected just for knowing someone.

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1 minute ago, Steven said:

I guess I worded it badly. What I'm saying is that nobody is picked purely because they know someone. Of course most volunteers picked would need to know some others, otherwise there would be no way for the current volunteers to trust the incoming ones. But a common misconception is that volunteers are made over other potential candidates because they have better personal relationships with the current ones, which isn't true. They may be brought up in discussion because current ones know of their work ethic and dedication, but they're not selected just for knowing someone.

 

This I would agree with

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Ugg!  Truth has always been if you are not known or liked by volunteers...then you have little chance.  It does not matter what you are capable of.

Honestly...I would be a hypocrite to say I haven't disagreed with some becoming volunteer or opposed others.  Often times it was due to mistrust and I DO KNOW

that I have a hard time of letting go of some peoples past mistakes and just trusting anyone.  I also had a sense of they just were not good enough..always wanting the best for xat.

I think this is where people get the "its who you know attitude from."  That feeling or vibe. Just explaining it from another pesrpective.

 

My issue is not how volunteers are chosen.  Ones I thought would amaze me...have disappointed. Ones I felt would amount to nothing..are sometimes the ones who really care.

I do not think changing the current volunteer structure and process is the problem and will fix xat. I do feel they should have accountability though.  

 

I don't care for your comment that people are mad because they aren't volunteer.  Not everyone can be. Also most I see posting here...would not even want it.  Steven..I know you.

I also know that comment was not intended how it sounded.  However....it gives me the vibe that I am volunteer and above all attitude though.  Like I said..I know it was not your intention.

I believe you are 1 that went in hoping to change xat and make it better.  My reference to this is not to single you out but to answer and shed to light to several pcs that I received about it.

Just putting it out there in the open.

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Just now, Mario said:

This has turned into pointless drama .

How? People are discussing pretty important matters, and clearing some things up. You see "pointless drama" but I see discussion. 

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1 minute ago, TinkerDoodle said:

discussing pretty important matters

It is not people's business to argue how people get picked to become contributor , volunteer or how they get ranked. This thread went from what would be good to make some changes to why some people get rank and some others don't

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I think my comment was misunderstood, most people here are commenting out of genuine concern and that's good.

 

Moving on from the ranks thing... I personally believe the tickets are part of the problem, but not the main reason people leave (and not the main reason new people don't join). I think the move to HTML5 will be important and I hope it isn't too far into the future. But still, I agree with someone (forget who, may have been Tina) who said that xat used to draw in users because it was paired with radios or with games. Since it no longer has that purpose, I feel like the only way it's going to gain a lot of new users is if it somehow finds a way to reestablish itself as a useful and different tool. Like some pointed out, platforms like Discord are now better for gaming, so xat has to do something different to make it stand out. Unfortunately I really don't have any ideas there :$

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17 minutes ago, Mario said:

It is not people's business to argue how people get picked to become contributor , volunteer or how they get ranked. This thread went from what would be good to make some changes to why some people get rank and some others don't

Im not gonna bother replying then that'll be drama and I don't want this wonderful thread to be locked. You can find me @xat5 or /f1431143 and we can talk about it in pc. 

 

 

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I'm glad a lot of people care and are voicing their opinions in this thread. But for real, does all of this even matter? Xat chooses what they do and do not listen to from users. We see a bit of improvements with the "To Do List" thread, but it seems like it's literal baby steps whenever they do fix something that has been suggested on that thread. And I think mobile was actually more of a handicap than it actually helped. The website should have just as much as priority as mobile and at this point is inexcusable. Wake up, xat is dying because it hasn't changed. Minor detail changes to chat buttons and pawn fixes aren't going to put people in awe.

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1 hour ago, Mencee said:

Xat chooses what they do and do not listen to from users

That's the whole reason this site is dying. Nobody advertised for xat, and nobody fixed the bugs and glitches. They stopped caring, otherwise xat wouldn't be so dead today.

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7 minutes ago, Phinny said:

That's the whole reason this site is dying. Nobody advertised for xat, and nobody fixed the bugs and glitches. They stopped caring, otherwise xat wouldn't be so dead today.

agreed

 

this is the truth

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12 hours ago, Mencee said:

Wake up, xat is dying because it hasn't changed. Minor detail changes to chat buttons and pawn fixes aren't going to put people in awe.

We're not only talking about "minor detail changes to chat buttons and pawn fixes" in this thread, which you would have seen if you cared to read it all, or even a portion, honestly. We are, however, talking about mostly everything else you said, "it hasn't changed", or more so...

12 hours ago, Mencee said:

Xat chooses what they do and do not listen to from users

 

Yes, it does matter, which is why we are voicing our opinions on the matter. Yes, it's their company, but without the users, there wouldn't be one.

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This probably isn't what everyone wants to hear, and it is unfortunate that Xat has dropped to this state, as it used to be my chat system of choice back during 2008, but there came a point where I couldn't stick with what is a fairly antiquated site.

 

To be honest, Xat missed it's chance five years ago. Discord is basically what I and quite a few people have always wanted, but which we didn't have the resources to realise.

I have seen many sites switch over to Discord, from Chatango and other similar services.

 

To compete with Discord, Xat would basically have to get rid of powers. All of them. Discord lets you upload your own emojis to your "servers" aka a guild which can hold multiple chats called "channels". Any user can make a server. For free.

 

That feature alone blows most of the micro-transactions Xat has out of the water, as you no longer need to pay for new smilies, you can simply upload some, and this gives you the flexibility of using whatever you want.

 

Discord's premium service, Nitro lets you use emojis from any server you're in anywhere. Some special servers, those run by partners, or even discord staff may even have emojis you can use globally simply by joining them. You don't even need Nitro to use them!

 

Discord has much, much fewer distractions. There aren't micro-transactions which give you fancy colours or purple pawns before your name in the user list. Things are customised as the chat owner sees fit.

They can create custom roles with whatever permissions they wish, have whatever colours they want for those roles. whatever order they please, and set user nicknames for that server to whatever they please.

 

Discord has no concept of "main owners" which can be granted to multiple users. There is simply an owner who is always the owner of the chat, unless they transfer ownership. While this seems less flexible, this is actually a step forward, as I have seen many, many problems with main owners on Xat before.

 

Discord has a modern theme on mobile, native, and the web. Xat's chats look like something out of 2007, and the main site's theme looks like something out of the 90s.

Discord is growing rapidly, and I can only see it going up and up. This is because Discord doesn't pursue short-term gains, but the big picture.

 

And honestly, it's too late for Xat to compete with Discord. Even if it made a move, it would be seen as little more than a copy-cat, assuming that Xat has the time and resources to make a move.

 

Discord is also in constant development. New features are constantly being released. For free. The current ones they're working on are audit logs and screen-sharing. Audit logs being something you have to pay for on Xat, and last I checked, the theme for it was horrendous.

 

There were also things like kisses in Xat which are extremely distracting. This isn't possible at all in Discord, and it's actually a *good thing*. Discord's staff are also extremely responsive to the community, in fact I have had the pleasure of meeting one myself. Xat's admins are like unicorns in comparison.

 

I don't know if Xat can survive, but I sincerely doubt it. It would take a really big move, and a mountain of luck for Xat to manoeuvre itself out of this rut. But, who knows. Anything's possible.

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@Azareal No offence, but if your you're that much into discord, you should probably go use discord then without looking back.

 

I don't want xat to become like discord and i don't want to upload my own smilies, because xat makes the best smilies of all. Uniqueness!

 

All people want to see is that admins start listening to the community; that bugs get fixed, that suggestions are used, that we get new (free) features and some innovation, a html5 chat version and that ticket delays get reduced, as much as possible.

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