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XAT - IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE


Dann

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1 minute ago, Flake said:

 

Answering tickets sometimes and grinding tickets are two different things. If volunteers were to grind tickets, there would be almost no delay, but there is delay, so it's evident that they don't grind tickets.

I wouldn't be this pessimistic on the matter and see how it pans out. One active individual can motivate others to get involved, no matter how busy they might be with whatever's going on in their life.

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10 minutes ago, dann said:

I agree with OJ.

 

This is how it should be. Volunteers knocking out tickets to get users taken care of. And if they can't produce, IN MY OPINION, they should be removed. And allow someone to take their place who will produce a good amount of assistance.

 

Volunteers are just that VOLUNTEERS. If they want to get paid... then maybe they should go apply somewhere to get a job doing this type of thing xD

 

Just my two cents...

 

-Dan

 

Then let's remove every volunteer except about 3. And that's optimistic.

 

You're missing the point.

 

Almost none of the current volunteers do the workload that is necessary to produce minimal delay.

 

"If they want to get paid, they should apply for a job"

 

You just pointed out the main flaw of the volunteer system, proving my point further. Hopefully I don't have to explain why this is the case.

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On 21/04/2017 at 11:29 AM, Admin said:

 

Do you not think xat mobile is a good improvement to xat ?

 

Is it not useful to be able to chat at a bus stop, tea break, on the move etc etc ?

 

Mobile is a lot of work and we know there's much more to do. We have raised the priority of getting trading going on mobile.

 

Mobile will eventually add an invite functionality which allow new users to come on board.


Yeah, that was nice, but you did it a way too late.
For years, you was sitting on your chair to refresh the Paypal page and count the $, now just see what happens.
 

Quote

Mobile will also directly lead to an html5 version (not technically proven yet)

 

There's already many chats app for mobile (Android/iOS) developed by company that are alot of bigger than you with a lot of more money. The concurrence is a lot of bigger than you. Discord, for exemple. But also Kik, Line, Viber, WeChat, WhatsApp etc etc

The only advantage you have is the internationalization of Xat, where people can talk directly with others users from others countries around the world.

Just look the design of the chat page. It hasn't changed for years. (Some people posted some screens in this thread.) And don't tell me it take time to change it, i'm a web dev i know what i'm talking about. Adding/Changing content of a website is one of key to keep your users base, just take YouTube, Twitter, Twitch etc, they improve it every days. I know you're a small team, but still. You changed the design of the home page to use Bootstrap, that was nice, but it's not the most viewed page on the site : it's the chat page. The technologies in web dev has improved a lot in the past years, with front/back end framework like Angular, Vue, React, NodeJS etc and i'm pretty sure you can find an alternative to Flash. Flash is dying, most browsers are starting to not support Flash anymore. (Chrome, Firefox, Safari) but it's sadly too late now.

And i won't talk about volunteers, because that's one of the best joke i have seen on internet. Recruiting people to work for you, for free, for a company, it's the best joke ever.

Anyway, good luck for the future.

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45 minutes ago, Andre said:

I wouldn't be this pessimistic on the matter and see how it pans out. One active individual can motivate others to get involved, no matter how busy they might be with whatever's going on in their life.

 

It's hard to be optimistic considering the current delay of tickets and the lack of motivation shown by most current volunteers. I agree that a few more individuals being added to the Volunteers would help a lot... but the issue is actually finding these people.

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1 minute ago, Flake said:

It's hard to be optimistic considering the current delay of tickets and the lack of motivation shown by most current volunteers.

Just because one or two departments are delayed does not mean there aren't volunteers grinding tickets.

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7 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Just because one or two departments are delayed does not mean there aren't volunteers grinding tickets.

 

But these "one or two departments" make up a large quantity of the total tickets. Just because the majority of departments aren't delayed doesn't give an excuse for one or two departments to be extremely delayed.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame volunteers for not doing the necessary workload. The flaw lies in the Volunteer system itself. However, saying that Volunteers do the necessary workload is ignorant, because one or two extremely delayed departments and the amount of people complaining on Help alone say otherwise.

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23 minutes ago, Phinny said:

If you go on Help now, you can see the vols are just sitting there typing to others, not always doing tickets. I mean, I know I wouldn't want to be doing tickets all day either, but I think the vols are spending a little too much time on xat, and not enough answering tickets, which is the most likely cause for the delay in ticket responses, which causes the users to complain more about not having their ticket answered. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please.)

I have my own opinions and thoughts on many vols but even I have to say cut the vols some slack. They do need their own free time too, they still need to talk and maintain friendships on xat. They might spend an hour on help but for all we know they spent 3 hours doing tickets before getting on xat.

 

And what if the vols who are on aren't helping people in pc too? For example, Muffins helped me with an issue in pc a while back without me having to open a ticket. I just thing it's a little too much to say that vols spend too much time on xat. 

 

All of this only applies to vols who actually answer tickets and do stuff of course, not to the ones who sit around and do nothing. 

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50 minutes ago, Phinny said:

If you go on Help now, you can see the vols are just sitting there typing to others, not always doing tickets. I mean, I know I wouldn't want to be doing tickets all day either, but I think the vols are spending a little too much time on xat, and not enough answering tickets, which is most likely the cause for the delay in ticket responses, which causes the users to complain more about not having their ticket answered. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please.)

If I am sitting at Help, nine out of ten times I'm answering tickets as well as helping users in PC.

 

Another thing is: a lot of the time, a user needs a volunteer to open a ticket for them. It's useful to have a volunteer or two around for a situation like this.

 

29 minutes ago, TinkerDoodle said:

And what if the vols who are on aren't helping people in pc too? For example, Muffins helped me with an issue in pc a while back without me having to open a ticket. I just thing it's a little too much to say that vols spend too much time on xat. 

I don't have NoPC and for a reason; so anyone can message me and receive help. I'm sure I'm not the only volunteer that receives tons of PCs daily, even about normal issues that do not require a ticket.

 

4 hours ago, Flake said:

Just because the majority of departments aren't delayed doesn't give an excuse for one or two departments to be extremely delayed.

It's not an excuse that most departments aren't delayed, but it's certainly something positive. We can't fix the problem overnight but, as stated before, we're currently working on the delay as we speak.

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I don't personally know all volunteers, but the ones I DO know, @muffins for example, really do care about xat and will go out of their way to help users when needed. I have no idea how many tickets there are, but I really don't think that we should be blaming volunteers solely. I just think that xat needs to be more careful about who they're making volunteers in the first place- this being people who take their time, actually show a passion for xat, and aren't getting their ranks just because they know the right people at the right time. I could name so many people who aren't volunteers who definitely deserve to be. I believe that all volunteers need to share a common attitude, that being that they're not only in it for the status and purple name on the forum, but that they truly do want to make xat better. All volunteers should put in an equal amount of effort and if one was ever busy for a period of time, per se, then they should be willing to make up for that. After all, they're doing this for free, so you're bound to run into a few who care more about being "higher" than everyone else. I'm not saying all of them are like this, but it is the truth, quite unfortunately.

 

There are really only a couple options in regards to the ticket situation.

 

1. Start letting more <trustworthy> people help answer tickets.

2. Take more time to decide who truly does deserve to be a volunteer. 

 

In my opinion, yes paying volunteers might help, but if one has to be paid in order to do a higher quality job than what they've shown they supposedly want to do for free, then are they really a volunteer? On another note, maybe xat should just employ more actual staff. We can all be sure of one thing- in order to reduce the delay, we either need to have more people answering tickets, or the same group of people answering a lot more tickets. I highly doubt that the number of tickets coming in will stop anytime soon, so it's really the only way to keep up with it. 

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7 hours ago, Phinny said:

If you go on Help now, you can see the vols are just sitting there typing to others, not always doing tickets. I mean, I know I wouldn't want to be doing tickets all day either, but I think the vols are spending a little too much time on xat, and not enough answering tickets, which is most likely the cause for the delay in ticket responses, which causes the users to complain more about not having their ticket answered. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please.)

 

3 hours ago, Lunala said:
7 hours ago, Phinny said:

If you go on Help now, you can see the vols are just sitting there typing to others.

What about the vols that go on xat5 and do nothing ? 

Let's not forget volunteers are people too. Actually let's not forget VOLUNTEERS are just volunteering their time. "Spending a little too much time on xat". Comeon, you forget that the point to be on xat is to communicate with others? Remember, this isn't a job they get paid for. It's not like one can say they are doing nothing on the job...

 

Volunteers should (imo) have a quota of the amount of tickets that need to be answered within a certain amount of time. And In my opinion they SHOULD be just like any other user and talk and chat with everyone as they used to before. This status of volunteer doesn't mean they are slaves to xat and must be working on answering tickets every moment they are on, that is just not fair. It simply means they volunteer their time to helping users, just as others do on forum, help chats, etc etc. (Eg. You wouldnt ask a help staff why they aren't at help helping people, whilst they are chatting on another chat? XD)

 

@Lunala vols that go on xat5 and do "nothing" can be doing a VARIETY of things. Doesn't mean they have to make every move they do public. They could be: actively testing bugs/smilies. Discussing private topics in pc with someone. Even just sitting there while answering tickets and chatting at the same time. 

 

And like I've stated many of times, this thread isn't meant for bashing anyone. You can't blame something like delays in ticket system on the volunteers group. It's really not in one persons power to change things, although it should be pushed. So instead of speculating what can be wrong with these departments (also speculating one sidedly as you don't know what goes on behind the scenes). Ask what is being done to FIX these issues? And you will eventually get an answer.

 

One last thing, changes won't happen over night. We must be glad for initiation with baby steps, adding more volunteers to these departments are the first steps to getting things fixed. Give it time and as long as we push for fixes, hope they listen.

 

-Dann

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4 hours ago, Lunala said:

What about the vols that go on xat5 and do nothing ? 

Lol you mean the smiley makers? The fact that xat has a new power every week proves they are doing their work just fine, leave my Cupim alone :$

 

12 hours ago, dann said:

This is how it should be. Volunteers knocking out tickets to get users taken care of. And if they can't produce, IN MY OPINION, they should be removed. And allow someone to take their place who will produce a good amount of assistance.

^ I've been waiting forever, this is unacceptable, sort this.

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54 minutes ago, dann said:

Let's not forget volunteers are people too. Actually let's not forget VOLUNTEERS are just volunteering their time. "Spending a little too much time on xat". Comeon, you forget that the point to be on xat is to communicate with others? Remember, this isn't a job they get paid for. It's not like one can say they are doing nothing on the job...

 

The issue. Without pay, there's no reason to consistently grind tickets. It's all well and good saying "Volunteers shouldn't have to do as much since they aren't getting paid..." but that's the EXACT flaw with the system. The majority of all of the volunteers have this process of thinking, so won't do as much as they would be doing if they were to be paid - it sets an expectation that they have to keep up with the demand. Without this expectation, there's no reason to continue.

 

1 hour ago, Madison said:

I don't personally know all volunteers, but the ones I DO know, @muffins for example, really do care about xat and will go out of their way to help users when needed. I have no idea how many tickets there are, but I really don't think that we should be blaming volunteers solely.

 

No one's blaming the volunteers. It's impossible to do so, because they aren't getting paid to do it. When people blame the volunteers, they are truly blaming the volunteer system as a whole. They aren't doing as much as they should, sure, but that is solely the fault of the system as opposed to the volunteers themselves.

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Stop bashing the volunteers!  It is NOT an easy job.  While I agree...their is major delay, not ALL volunteers have access to the delayed departments.

Only a select few.  Like I said 6 months ago.....the major issue is having restricted access to departments in the first place.

The answer is NEVER just make more volunteers.  Not everyone is capable.  The result you would get is instead a push of a button and a pre made response.

I am not saying get rid of the volunteers who do not have time or do little either.  

 

Having been a volunteer for years though, I can say that we never let tickets get past 2 or 3 pages.  Once it got close, on our own, we would get in touch with other volunteers

and do a major cram session done to get the users taken care of.  I do agree except for a select few....volunteers have lost touch with the users and prefer it that way.  

So give them some credit if they actually are fighting to change the system. Lets hope the results are more promising then the last time we had a debate

about this and were promised better results with new volunteers added.  Keep in mind...they want that emertei title in the future and do not want to be discharged for 

fighting back....:$

 

 

Also...I am tired of hearing without pay replies...They get added perks.  They volunteer and have standing and title.  They receive free powers they can sell.  There are also

other  little perks at times.  Can you compare it to a full or part time job? No..but then again if it was real pay it would be a "paid" position with accountability and I doubt any of

the current and even most of the past volunteers would of then had the opportunity.

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1 hour ago, Madison said:

In my opinion, yes paying volunteers might help, but if one has to be paid in order to do a higher quality job than what they've shown they supposedly want to do for free, then are they really a volunteer? 

 

No, they're not. This is why you make two categories, "volunteers" and "paid volunteers" (or whatever else this would be called). I've given an explanation about this before, so I'll just post it here:

 

I think there should be both Volunteers and "paid volunteers" (whatever this would be called) in two different categories. I feel like this would work because the hard-working volunteers who aren't getting paid would be encouraged to work hard to become a "paid volunteer", i.e a reward system. Those who slack off as a paid volunteer will be demoted to a regular volunteer, and regular volunteers doing next to no work should also be demoted. This way, "unpaid volunteers" are motivated to earn "paid volunteer", "paid volunteers" are motivated via pay, and even if they are not motivated, they will be demoted.

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2 minutes ago, Flake said:

 

No, they're not. This is why you make two categories, "volunteers" and "paid volunteers" (or whatever else this would be called). I've given an explanation about this before, so I'll just post it here:

 

I think there should be both Volunteers and "paid volunteers" (whatever this would be called) in two different categories. I feel like this would work because the hard-working volunteers who aren't getting paid would be encouraged to work hard to become a "paid volunteer", i.e a reward system. Those who slack off as a paid volunteer will be demoted to a regular volunteer, and regular volunteers doing next to no work should also be demoted. This way, "unpaid volunteers" are motivated to earn "paid volunteer", "paid volunteers" are motivated via pay, and even if they are not motivated, they will be demoted.

This was kinda sorta in effect already when i was volunteer.  There already is a very small group of higher ranked volunteers. Unfortunately, this is where most of the delays come in because the

tickets take much longer.  Its a very closed group and not every volunteer is capable.  The answer isn't just add more there either,  

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12 minutes ago, Christina said:

Stop bashing the volunteers!  It is NOT an easy job.  While I agree...their is major delay, not ALL volunteers have access to the delayed departments.

Only a select few.  Like I said 6 months ago.....the major issue is having restricted access to departments in the first place.

 

Good point. I'm unsure as to how many volunteers don't have access to delayed departments, but they should be taught how to respond to such tickets to increase production rates. Not doing this is pure laziness.

 

12 minutes ago, Christina said:

The answer is NEVER just make more volunteers.  Not everyone is capable.  The result you would get is instead a push of a button and a pre made response.

I am not saying get rid of the volunteers who do not have time or do little either.  

 

Making more volunteers would work given they have access to delayed departments and they know how to respond to tickets within these departments, but at the moment new volunteers wouldn't be able to do this, so I'd have to agree with this statement if things go the way they are now.

 

4 minutes ago, Christina said:

This was kinda sorta in effect already when i was volunteer.  There already is a very small group of higher ranked volunteers. Unfortunately, this is where most of the delays come in because the

tickets take much longer.  Its a very closed group and not every volunteer is capable.  The answer isn't just add more there either,  

 

Then the answer is to make most or all volunteers capable of answering these tickets. They should be taught how to do it.

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21 minutes ago, Flake said:

 

The issue. Without pay, there's no reason to consistently grind tickets. It's all well and good saying "Volunteers shouldn't have to do as much since they aren't getting paid..." but that's the EXACT flaw with the system. The majority of all of the volunteers have this process of thinking, so won't do as much as they would be doing if they were to be paid - it sets an expectation that they have to keep up with the demand. Without this expectation, there's no reason to continue.

It's just a matter of removing those who don't produce as much. The volunteering system has been around for a while. my point wasn't that they don't have to do as much since they aren't getting paid. My point was they are regular people just as you and I. They are not bots. You can't expect them to always be answering tickets and not chatting. I'm sure they weren't told : with volunteering comes your right to chat. Let them chat.. let them interact with users... if they aren't doing their job as volunteers, it is up to XAT to remove/replace them.

 

All in all, Just give them time, seems like they are working on change. If you don't like the results they are currently pushing for, then you can comment in the future. But let them work on it and lets see the results that will accumulate. You know if there is change once you stop hearing the amount of users on help chats asking when their 1-2 month old ticket will be answered.

 

I have faith they will work to get the ticket system back on track, once that is completed, I suggest to push for other things that need change on xat. But like anything, in the time being, this will be a 'one step at a time' thing.

 

-Dann

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Again..only Admins can change what is broken.  The volunteers/contributors/wiki editors/ community  can help by voicing opinion and actually

admit there are problems.  Like I said...if I learned 1 thing on xat...it is that you have to make noise to get anything done.

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12 minutes ago, dann said:

It's just a matter of removing those who don't produce as much. The volunteering system has been around for a while. my point wasn't that they don't have to do as much since they aren't getting paid. My point was they are regular people just as you and I. They are not bots. You can't expect them to always be answering tickets and not chatting. I'm sure they weren't told : with volunteering comes your right to chat. Let them chat.. let them interact with users... if they aren't doing their job as volunteers, it is up to XAT to remove/replace them.

 

All in all, Just give them time, seems like they are working on change. If you don't like the results they are currently pushing for, then you can comment in the future. But let them work on it and lets see the results that will accumulate. You know if there is change once you stop hearing the amount of users on help chats asking when their 1-2 month old ticket will be answered.

 

I have faith they will work to get the ticket system back on track, once that is completed, I suggest to push for other things that need change on xat. But like anything, in the time being, this will be a 'one step at a time' thing.

 

-Dann

 

Removing ones who don't do as much is also a good idea, because this also sets an expectation for the others volunteers - "If I don't do X amount of work, I'll no longer be a volunteer". Basically, volunteers just need to be given an expectation of the amount of work they should be doing (which is higher than it is now for a lot of volunteers). The only current push for volunteers is the users complaining, which isn't good.

 

As Christina said, only Admins can change what is broken, and at the moment I lack faith in them with regards to fixing what is currently broken based on their reaction to this thread.

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You've been gifted with the knowledge that only a couple of volunteers have access to the delayed departments, yet you keep iterating that a lot of volunteers aren't hitting any sort of expectation, and for reasons I can't fathom we need to pay volunteers or split the team into paid and unpaid. Both of these ideas are just not an option and frankly not good ideas at all.

 

There's literally 2 volunteers in the delayed departments, and they simply don't have enough time to cater to the number of tickets (university, work, life in general). I am also not against the fact that the volunteers in the "middle" aren't in those departments either. They are playing the long game, waiting for someone the current Volunteers in the department are happy to work with (so simply sharing knowledge isn't enough). Admins don't control the support system, Volunteers are looking to fix it as Andre said in the other thread, they are going to add someone else into those departments and hope that it helps.

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1 hour ago, Daniel said:

You've been gifted with the knowledge that only a couple of volunteers have access to the delayed departments, yet you keep iterating that a lot of volunteers aren't hitting any sort of expectation

 

I'm not saying they aren't hitting expectations (although this is true), they aren't given an expectation to answer tickets (i.e through pay or threat of demotion). I've outlined this as one of the reasons why volunteers aren't hitting expectations, so I don't really see what your point is here. You're effectively either agreeing with me or misreading what I said by saying this.

 

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

and for reasons I can't fathom we need to pay volunteers or split the team into paid and unpaid. Both of these ideas are just not an option and frankly not good ideas at all.Both of these ideas are just not an option and frankly not good ideas at all.

 

Why are they not an option? Why are they bad? I understand pay is unlikely to happen, but it doesn't make it a bad option. Is my other idea of having Volunteers demoted when they don't do the necessary work also a bad option?

 

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

There's literally 2 volunteers in the delayed departments, and they simply don't have enough time to cater to the number of tickets (university, work, life in general). I am also not against the fact that the volunteers in the "middle" aren't in those departments either. They are playing the long game, waiting for someone the current Volunteers in the department are happy to work with (so simply sharing knowledge isn't enough).

 

They've been playing the "long game" for quite a while now. What do you mean by someone the Volunteers in department are happy to work with? If they have the knowledge to answer the tickets, they have it, so they should be happy to work with them for this reason. Unless you are implying personal dislike or other personal reasons, which would be pathetic of them.

 

Edit

 

I now realise you could be talking about issues of trust with regards to torches etc, but measuring trust is extremely difficult. If they lack trust in every other volunteer, so be it, but nothing will happen. Nothing will happen until they try seeing how it will pan out. If it doesn't pan out well, they can be demoted. Simple as.

 

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

Admins don't control the support system, Volunteers are looking to fix it as Andre said in the other thread, they are going to add someone else into those departments and hope that it helps.

 

I wasn't really specifically aiming for the Support System, but I meant quite a lot of the final decisions and changes in general are controlled by the Admins, who at the moment don't look like they will bother with most of these suggestions.

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I noticed that before it was little talk and much was done.
Now there is much talk and little is done.
How long should we continue to talk without making changes?
I have a year since I left, and anyway there were no changes.
Five or more years ago was good, the united world, and they were listening to each other, now they all argue without any reason.
It's upset, after saying that we're all bad.

I do not want to be right, but unfortunately this is the reality now on xat.com.
If I'm wrong, I'm sorry......:):(
I want to cry, :'( not cry because I still love xat.com, that's why I'm here every day....:$
@Admin
Edit: You can change anything but @muffins , it always remains.
LOL :$ 

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