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XAT - IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE

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3 minutes ago, oj said:

 

I would say they do "slowly, but surely" but the only true part about that is "slowly."

If they're not pushed to the Admins (REPEATEDLY), nothing gets done with them (if anything does after it being pushed to them anyways).

I guess that's why they only "seem to get fixed"...

 

Like Christina said earlier, 

People grow older, that's a fact, and with that, memory gets a little worse as time goes on.

This may be one of the reasons that they do not check back on things they have replied to (only once, in most cases), but it should not be an excuse, really.

There are plenty of users who try and push things to the admins, but they only listen to a few (volunteers/contributors, if that) (I know this has been said)

Instead of viewing it once and forgetting about it, maybe write it down as something to come back to.

I know they follows posts they reply to, but do they actually come back and look at them?

 

The lack of faith is well deserved in some cases.

Things detailed in this thread are those items that have been brought up repeatedly and nothing has been done with them.

It's not a lack of faith, really. It's people trying to help make YOUR site @Admin better.

Instead of responding to those who are trying to benefit you and your community, and practically insulting them, would it not be more beneficial to spend less time referencing Star Wars, and instead invest time into focusing on issues detailed in this thread. Then, maybe there would be a little less to cover here. Then, maybe there wouldn't be a "lack of faith."

 

This response honestly disappoints me. If anything, it takes away from the thread.

I wish I could like this 1MIllion times. Thank you for your response.

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@Admin Witty Star Wars reply, but I don't think that this is the proper time nor is it the right place for it. This topic for many people is something very serious. We've all stayed on xat because we enjoy the site and what it has to offer- and I don't think that everything everybody has contributed to this thread should be taken as a joke / brushed off that easily. People have taken time to reflect and come up with ideas on how xat can improve, and you out of us all should be the most supportive of this.

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20 minutes ago, oj said:

 

I would say they do "slowly, but surely" but the only true part about that is "slowly."

If they're not pushed to the Admins (REPEATEDLY), nothing gets done with them (if anything does after it being pushed to them anyways).

I guess that's why they only "seem to get fixed"...

 

A few years back, I created a list with the help of Mike of about 50+ bugs. Mike asked me personally to create this list so he could give it to admins. I don't they have actually been fixed. Theres probably maybe 10 that have. If I can find the list, I'll post it in an edited reply. The fact is, people are willing to HELP find them, and are open to doing it for no reward at all. The fact is once they're found they're not fixed which is the problem. Unless you actually provide the actual fix, which isn't always as easy as it sounds, then they don't seem to actually do anything with the reports. 

 

20 minutes ago, oj said:

Like Christina said earlier, 

People grow older, that's a fact, and with that, memory gets a little worse as time goes on.

This may be one of the reasons that they do not check back on things they have replied to (only once, in most cases), but it should not be an excuse, really.

There are plenty of users who try and push things to the admins, but they only listen to a few (volunteers/contributors, if that) (I know this has been said)

Instead of viewing it once and forgetting about it, maybe write it down as something to come back to.

I know they follows posts they reply to, but do they actually come back and look at them?

 

Honestly, you can use age as a factor into them not doing things, however if you actually care about the company YOU created, you'd write things down to help you with actually completing basic tasks. People are willing and able to help them actually do things, I WAS a prime example of someone who was willing and able. But in the end it all comes back down to the trust issue which I've expressed numerous times. 

 

20 minutes ago, oj said:

The lack of faith is well deserved in some cases.

Things detailed in this thread are those items that have been brought up repeatedly and nothing has been done with them.

It's not a lack of faith, really. It's people trying to help make YOUR site @Admin better.

Instead of responding to those who are trying to benefit you and your community, and practically insulting them, would it not be more beneficial to spend less time referencing Star Wars, and instead invest time into focusing on issues detailed in this thread. Then, maybe there would be a little less to cover here. Then, maybe there wouldn't be a "lack of faith."

 

This response honestly disappoints me. If anything, it takes away from the thread.

 

You're absolutely right that the lack of faith is deserved in some cases. The fact is it's all possible to be fixed. The huge problem is they're just anti-fixing the issue which helps provide them with income, which in my eyes is actual madness. 

 

I can personally say that me and Danns have put a large amount of time into our replies, and the fact they replied with practically a meme implying we're all wrong is utterly disgusting. If you bothered listening to your community in the past, this thread would never of needed to be created. The fact they actually replied with that starwars video is in essence a simple way to show that they really don't care about the people who use this site, and that is the underlying problem that needs to be addressed before they start trying to make this website better. 

 

Edit:

 

Here is the link to the google doc that was created at the request of admins (or so I was told) - Almost certain there is no bugs here which can cause any issues with xat (could be wrong?)

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t18DQT1fXuUIkIyyTqUztgsp8TAH-D_-TgutUeyuMyA/edit?usp=sharing

 

They were even added to the document.

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14 minutes ago, oj said:

 

I would say they do "slowly, but surely" but the only true part about that is "slowly."

If they're not pushed to the Admins (REPEATEDLY), nothing gets done with them (if anything does after it being pushed to them anyways).

I guess that's why they only "seem to get fixed"...

 

Like Christina said earlier, 

People grow older, that's a fact, and with that, memory gets a little worse as time goes on.

This may be one of the reasons that they do not check back on things they have replied to (only once, in most cases), but it should not be an excuse, really.

There are plenty of users who try and push things to the admins, but they only listen to a few (volunteers/contributors, if that) (I know this has been said)

Instead of viewing it once and forgetting about it, maybe write it down as something to come back to.

I know they follows posts they reply to, but do they actually come back and look at them?

 

The lack of faith is well deserved in some cases.

Things detailed in this thread are those items that have been brought up repeatedly and nothing has been done with them.

It's not a lack of faith, really. It's people trying to help make YOUR site @Admin better.

Instead of responding to those who are trying to benefit you and your community, and practically insulting them, would it not be more beneficial to spend less time referencing Star Wars, and instead invest time into focusing on issues detailed in this thread. Then, maybe there would be a little less to cover here. Then, maybe there wouldn't be a "lack of faith."

 

This response honestly disappoints me. If anything, it takes away from the thread.

actually , you replied really well . thats 100% truth  , really with that video , they look like have no care what so ever is going on .

2dr8dhl.jpg

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55 minutes ago, Karl said:

The fact is, people are willing to HELP find them, and are open to doing it for no reward at all. The fact is once they're found they're not fixed which is the problem. Unless you actually provide the actual fix, which isn't always as easy as it sounds, then they don't seem to actually do anything with the reports. 

100% agree. People are willing to help, and they try. If it's not something the admins can copy paste, it's not usually something that they'll fix.

It's easy to do those on the chat side, but when it becomes a website or server issue, it's a little harder. 

 

If you look at https://web.archive.org/web/20081028020218/http://xatspace.com/Chris, the earliest copy of his xatspace on the web (that I found),

Quote

 

Things I like:

  • Good chat owners
  • People who give me tips and tell me whats going on
  • People who make xat a great place and don't ask for anything in return
  • Creative glitter effects eg #up#oo (hearts)#blood
  • Subscribers ;-)

 

 

What happened to that? I'm sure they were active in the past, but well, there's tons of those people who try today, but they continue to get ignored or mocked. @Admin

 

(Now I now I'm just bashing on Chris here, but that's because I've had little to no interaction with Darren)

 

There's many lists like that doc, including @LaFleur's huge topic of bug fixes, etc.

Admins know of it's existence, they've even pointed me towards it.

Have they looked at it themselves? Probably not.

The only reason most of those things get fixed are because people do it for them.

The bug lists keep increasing in size, and there's no sign of them going down.

 

People that are willing and able to help them (like you and countless others) can only do so much without being able to do it themselves.

(For what I'm about to say, I don't know if anything like this exists that I am not aware of, so I am bringing it up)

It's been brought up before, I don't know by who, to put xat on GitHub or something.

Now, this is sort of a pro-con idea. If done, it's possible that "bad things" could be done with the content/information that is involved. 

However by doing so, it opens the doors for not just xat community members, but countless others to participate in making xat a better place.

Then, among other problems, there is the ultimate problem, admin involvement, which is really the major thing that's holding back tons of progress on this site.

I'm not sure it should be open open-source, maybe just some select people, and in this case, those select people's recommendations would for once be beneficial. People in the bug fixing community know other people in the bug fixing community and they're serious about it. They won't just recommend friends to give them some feeling of importance.

 

55 minutes ago, Karl said:

If you bothered listening to your community in the past, this thread would never of needed to be created

 

55 minutes ago, Karl said:

a simple way to show that they really don't care about the people who use this site

^^ It's incredibly disgusting. I would honestly be ashamed of myself if me, the admin of a community, replied in a mocking manner to a thread that was created to outline and aid problems on MY SITE.

 

As for the list you included in your edited reply, most of those (like every other bug on xat) are ones that have been around forever. 

Most of those things require either admin involvement, or enough trust in somebody to get them to do it for them.

Among other things, if anything is holding back this site, it's them not doing anything that is not a way to get them potential income. And even then, they're reluctant to fix anything that could result in more income anyways. But hey, maybe if they keep throwing out (no offense to smilie makers who do their best) useless smilie powers, people will spend more money on it right? How long has it been since there's been a functional power? On the powers list, the last one is x2d... which isn't even a new idea, just switching around an old one, which is 13 down, so 1/4 of a year. After that, it's around 60 powers (...? over a year) until the next one that I would consider a function, which is ranklock, if that counts (unless I missed something).

 

 

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7 minutes ago, oj said:

100% agree. People are willing to help, and they try. If it's not something the admins can copy paste, it's not usually something that they'll fix.

It's easy to do those on the chat side, but when it becomes a website or server issue, it's a little harder. 

 

The problem with their unwillingness to fix things that are not a simple copy + paste is a huge problem. Of course if there is an exploit which affects xat, they will actually take their time to fix it. Problem is people can't actually fix things for them if it's server sided because we don't have the source.

9 minutes ago, oj said:

If you look at https://web.archive.org/web/20081028020218/http://xatspace.com/Chris, Chris's earliest copy of his xatspace on the web,

Things I like:

  • People who give me tips and tell me whats going on
  • People who make xat a great place and don't ask for anything in return

What happened to that? I'm sure they were active in the past, but well, there's tons of those people who try today, but they continue to get ignored or mocked. @Admin

 

(Now I now I'm just bashing on Chris here, but that's because I've had little to no interaction with Darren)

 

A lot of the people who want to help make xat better, are totally willing to help without asking for anything in return. When I would report things the only thing I ever wanted was a simple thank you, and unfortunately that was far too hard for them and the only person who ever seemed to say thanks to me was Spell and that is not his place at all.  

 

Another extremely valid point in his original xatspace is "people who give me tips and tell me whats going on" we are telling him whats going on whilst also providing tips on how to improve however his response is a pathetic video minimizing the issues in this thread, I'm slightly heated about that.

 

And considering it isn't Darren giving them replies I think it's perfectly acceptable to bash Chris for his sheer inability to give any constructive information to the people who spend (waste by the way hes acting) on his website.

 

21 minutes ago, oj said:

There's many lists like that doc, including @LaFleur's huge topic of bug fixes, etc.

Admins know of it's existence, they've even pointed me towards it.

Have they looked at it themselves? Probably not.

The only reason most of those things get fixed are because people do it for them.

The bug lists keep increasing in size, and there's no sign of them going down.

 

I'm not trying to say that Fleurs is pointless, but I was asked to create this list for admins so they could fix the bugs before mobile got released, as you can see that wasn't what happened. Admins have seen this, whilst it was in the contributors they replied to it numerous times but they failed to do anything productive with the lists given. 

 

22 minutes ago, oj said:

People that are willing and able to help them (like you and countless others) can only do so much without being able to do it themselves.

(For what I'm about to say, I don't know if anything like this exists that I am not aware of, so I am bringing it up)

It's been brought up before, I don't know by who, to put xat on GitHub or something.

Now, this is sort of a pro-con idea. If done, it's possible that "bad things" could be done with the content/information that is involved. 

However by doing so, it opens the doors for not just xat community members, but countless others to participate in making xat a better place.

Then, among other problems, there is the ultimate problem, admin involvement, which is really the major thing that's holding back tons of progress on this site.

I'm not sure it should be open open-source, maybe just some select people, and in this case, those select people's recommendations would for once be beneficial. People in the bug fixing community know other people in the bug fixing community and they're serious about it. They won't just recommend friends to give them some feeling of importance.

 

 

I was willing to help them, but they're not willing to help themselves and I think that is the most alarming thing what has been shown from this thread. I don't think admins will ever post anything on github. Firstly, they'll be far too wary of the risks that could come from it, but you're right. The doors that will be open is unprecedented and in the end the only thing that is going to happen is it's going to benefit admins in more ways than just people fixing their issues. Open sourcing is 100% the way forward in almost all instances, which is why things like google thrive on it. Admins lack of involvement is the thing thats holding this website back and they don't acknowledge that, and if they do then they're not making it public and they should. 

 

I'm sure there are numerous people more than willing to actually help in terms of bugs/making thigns for xat and whatever for little to no reward. I'm certain that @oj and myself would be more than willing to help. Not only to improve this website but it's also improving our own personal knowledge.

27 minutes ago, oj said:

^^ It's incredibly disgusting. I would honestly be ashamed of myself if me, the admin of a community, replied in a mocking manner to a thread that was created to outline and aid problems on MY SITE.

 

And I think this is the most important point. It proved they don't care and honestly not going to even bother unless they're pushed to do it, which is disgusting. They're ruining the business they created, because they're lazy, unwilling to do anything other than the basics and are unwilling to be helped. ACCEPT HELP

 

29 minutes ago, oj said:

As for the list you included in your edited reply, most of those (like every other bug on xat) are ones that have been around forever. 

Most of those things require either admin involvement, or enough trust in somebody to get them to do it for them.

Among other things, if anything is holding back this site, it's them not doing anything that is not a way to get them potential income. And even then, they're reluctant to fix anything that could result in more income anyways. But hey, maybe if they keep throwing out (no offense to smilie makers who do their best) useless smilie powers, people will spend more money on it right? How long has it been since there's been a functional power? On the powers list, the last one is x2d... which isn't even a new idea, just switching around an old one, which is 13 down, so 1/4 of a year. After that, it's around 60 powers (...? over a year) until the next one that I would consider a function, which is ranklock, if that counts (unless I missed something).

 

This list was created because admins wanted to fix the things I listed, they wanted it all fixed for mobile or so I was made to believe. I think the only way they'd actually be willing to fix them is if someone paid them to do it and thats an issue in itself.

 

Creating a profit is the the main aim behind a business and thats understandable, but the way they're actually going about it isn't giving them money. They see money today and they're not looking at the long term future with the opportunity to generate ten fold the income they're making now. Risk for reward, and they're against it.

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Since a few people have brought issue with Contributors as a whole, I would like to address some things from an inside perspective, but not turn this thread into anything related to contributors, as they, in the grand scheme of things, aren't that important, however, there is concerns of the community not being listened to.

 

Contributors is a very solid idea, yet the group really lacks content, and many issues discussed here are above what Contributors can influence and many issues are just not meant to be discussed in some private forum. Contributors cannot decide how Volunteers handle tickets, or how Volunteers are chosen or the support system in general. That is a matter for Volunteers. Many issues discussed here are also not Contributor topics, for example, the Contributor forum section is not a suggestion forum and general suggestions relating to xat do not belong there (although it doesn't stop some from being posted). The design of the chat, for example, is not a Contributor topic, it is a suggestion meant for all users to comment on.

 

If you believe that Contributors should be responsible for pushing for ideas, then we can, if necessary, become some sort of bridge for suggestions. A lot of suggestions on the forums are ignored, however things like smiley powers are not of Admin's concern. If the community largely agrees on an idea, such as a new function power, we can definitely pass it on to Admins and hear their opinion on it. It could even be the responsibility of Contributors to pass on the top voted ideas to Admins every couple of weeks. Things from @LaFleur's "To Do List" can be a place to start.

 

As for the actual content of Contributors, it's not totally useless, and I don't really subscribe (anymore) to the view that people agree with Volunteers and Admins just because of their titles. I can say that Admins have been opposed greatly in the section even in the past few weeks. It is not only used for discussions about changing things, but for reliable opinions.

 

Since Contributors is not a some secret society, and the secrecy is in place so honest (and sometimes brutal) opinions can be posted, I can give everyone an idea of what kind of issues we have commented on in the past (and have been successful in changing):

  • Inactive Help chats being redirected to Assistance, hoping to bring some life to Assistance and build a bigger community around users who do not have their own dedicated chats.
  • Location Update being changed for non paid users
  • Setting up the Facebook contest
  • Previously owned inactive chats and short names being able to be put on sale again.
  • Icons for the Forum and Wiki being added to the links at the top left of chats.

There's more, but the forum has been cleared up several times. These are not massively important issues, yet this does prove that Contributors are listened to.

 

If it is the general belief that Contributors are largely irrelevant (and I sort of agree to this), find a use for us. We have a level of trust with Admins and we are happy to be ambassadors, if you'd let us do so rather than slating the group as a whole. 

 

Contributors aside, it seems that the main issue of this thread is the classic "ticket system problem". I also see a Admins are taking a lot of hits for this, yet the Volunteers are almost entirely responsible for the system. The departments that have been "delayed" since as long as I can remember, are in all aspects of the word, an even more elitist group within the already elitist Volunteers group. I think that some attention should be brought to high ranking volunteers, and the fact they are seemingly unwilling to open up their group to help alleviate the delays.

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It's quite sad to see a serious thread like this to get mocked and memed upon by the admins, especially with the amount of users in this thread wanting to see an actual response.

xat is definitely declining in users compared to previous years, one of the primary reasons I would believe as to the reason for this is because of the lack of innovative changes, things just remain the same (an example of this can be seen looking at the screenshots dann provided), admins are partly at fault for this, for either having the inability to keep up with times or generally choosing not to, right now it appears to be the latter.

So what has the admins been doing in the last year?
Mobile Development
Safer codes for xat.me and groups
New powers (ruby, hugs, x2d, jinx)
New trade option updates

Mobile development
It's great they are trying to branch out and try something new, but I don't think xat mobile will be the savior to xat, not at it's current rate. xat mobile still needs a lot of work before it's finished, at least a couple of years - by this time, I would imagine a lot of its user base would have already left with little increase of new users due to new services like discord becoming more popular and xat refusing to 'keep up with the times'. I don't think this should be the admin's number one priority (or at least this seems to be the case), especially with the problems we're facing right now.

Safer codes for xat.me and groups
This was a good additional to xat to prevent people from 'abusing it', but I have a feeling the reason this was added was not because admins wanted to improve xat but to cover it's backs from people exploiting it.

New powers
I respect smiley makers and understand that they make powers voluntarily, but the problem with this is the quality of the powers, the root cause of this is the fact that powers get released weekly and with the same low-end quality, users become tired of this and it becomes evident with trade prices. My solution to this is to create something that isn't powers but allows us to spend our xat and in turn, still generate an income for the admins that isn't based on releasing powers weekly.

New trade option updates
I'll give props to this addition, it's a nice improvement except still has a lot of issues with it like freezing when you addall, but it's a step in the right direction and xat should look to do more things like this (improving apps for example).

So what should xat do?
I think the main thing is get their priorities straight and work on xat itself, before trying to branch out to mobile, some of fundamental things can be improved and I've listed some:

- having better categorizations for chatgroups, for example: gaming, sports, anime, movies, radios
- aswell as having the ability to filter through them (to find common interest)
- maybe a stretch but voice communication service, like live mode (keeping up with times)
- more interactive games between users
- I know it has been said countless times, but seriously decrease ticket times, 2-4 weeks isn't acceptable, I don't care how you do it, whether you decide to add more volunteers, move volunteers into other departments, hire someone, it has to be done
- promoting features of xat, making users aware that they can promote their chat, chatbanners, buy shortnames (this can be done with the banner when it's not being used)
- having daily surveys, to understand what customers like and or dislike

Another idea would be to have joint-partnerships with other services so that they use xat chatrooms for their website but first, xat has to work on improving their core; the chatbox and the website.

As much as everyone wants an official response from admins, I would much rather see their results in action rather than "we promise to work on things" with a soon™ slapped on.

Hopefully this thread is enough to make admins open their eyes and realise that they need to do something now before it's too late, take initiative instead of waiting slowly for it to die, strive for long term goals instead of being satisfied with what you have right now because for sure, it wont last.

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This was my opinion on what a contributor should be:

The contributor group should have been a group gathered by XAT. A group of users who don't necessarily rely on the opinion of xat/volunteers to articulate the voice of the community. It should be a group who is not afraid to reject ideas brought forward by staff/volunteers if believed to not be beneficial to the xat community. It should of been a group who speaks for the community and pushes for beneficial changes to be made. In conclusion, it should have been the "communities" group of ambassadors that speak for the community. But it all goes back to ONE thing you stated on this section and it is quoted below:

17 hours ago, Karl said:

With that being said, I will go based off of this to provide a response to this topic.

 

7 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Contributors is a very solid idea, yet the group really lacks content, and many issues discussed here are above what Contributors can influence and many issues are just not meant to be discussed in some private forum.

"many issues discussed here are above what contributors can influence" - Based on what I think contributors should be (voice of the people) Then contributors should have the influence to change anything that currently does not benefit xat and will cause for xat to benefit. EVEN if it's redesigning the chat. I am not posting to redesign the chat because I thought it would be a good idea. I am posting it because it's been 10 years with the same design, and it would benefit XAT to get updated with the times and make a much slicker/ less clunky chat.

7 minutes ago, Daniel said:

If it is the general belief that Contributors are largely irrelevant (and I sort of agree to this), find a use for us. We have a level of trust with Admins and we are happy to be ambassadors, if you'd let us do so rather than slating the group as a whole. 

We aren't slating your group WHATSOEVER. I feel as if your group was initially intended to represent the voice of the people. BUT that has changed over time to a group of people who post ideas to "better xat". But I don't see this group reflecting the views of the xat users as a whole.

7 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Despite that, the main issue of this thread is the ticket system problem. I also see a Admins are taking a lot of hits for this, yet the Volunteers are almost entirely responsible for the system. The departments that have been "delayed" since as long as I can remember, are in all aspects of the word, an even more elitist group within the already elitist Volunteers group. I think that some attention should be brought to high ranking volunteers, and their seemingly unwillingness to open up their group to help alleviate the delays.

IT is the duty of volunteers to provide support for the users. I condemn the volunteers just as much as admins who have not pushed for this to get resolved. As I have said it is unacceptable for users to have to wait that long to get an issue resolved. MAINLY when this issue was the fault of a security flaw on xat (based on data breach response).

 

With that being said... I want to know. What have you guys done to get this problem resolved? (I don't want to point anyone out, but I feel as if it's time volunteers put their input on this thread)

I also understand that these departments are only handled by a certain amount of people. But the point is the problem, there is a HUGE issue with tickets and there is no type of resolution. There NEEDS to be a resolution to issues like these and we expect you guys to push these things for us. How come it's not being done? and IF IT IS how come xat isn't listening? Do we have hope that something as serious as the SUPPORT of xat gets fix? or do we have to wait for mobile to be done for this to happen?

 

@Andre @Brandon @Chelly @Cupim @Cyan @Guinho @Jayden @Junior @Kyle @Mihay @Mike @muffins @Nick @steven

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47 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Contributors is a very solid idea, yet the group really lacks content, and many issues discussed here are above what Contributors can influence and many issues are just not meant to be discussed in some private forum. Contributors cannot decide how Volunteers handle tickets, or how Volunteers are chosen or the support system in general. That is a matter for Volunteers. Many issues discussed here are also not Contributor topics, for example, the Contributor forum section is not a suggestion forum and general suggestions relating to xat do not belong there (although it doesn't stop some from being posted). The design of the chat, for example, is not a Contributor topic, it is a suggestion meant for all users to comment on.

I wish I could agree with you on it being a very solid idea, however I can't. It lacks content because the people within the group are not willing to actually go out of their way to post anything constructive which invokes a discussion. Contributors should be the ones originally mentioned this topic which had a discussion between you and the volunteers. It's obvious they're not willing to post on this post and I'll cover them later on. You can infact voice your concerns about how the ticket system is ran, it might not have any influence but the fact it was mentioned is something all of you have failed to do. A lot of the issues posted here are not for contributors to bring up, however that isn't something that should stop them. 

 

47 minutes ago, Daniel said:

If you believe that Contributors should be responsible for pushing for ideas, then we can, if necessary, become some sort of bridge for suggestions. A lot of suggestions on the forums are ignored, however things like smiley powers are not of Admin's concern. If the community largely agrees on an idea, such as a new function power, we can definitely pass it on to Admins and hear their opinion on it. It could even be the responsibility of Contributors to pass on the top voted ideas to Admins every couple of weeks. Things from @LaFleur's "To Do List" can be a place to start.

The idea all a long was that you guys were there to voice suggestions, but thats the thing you haven't. I'm not blaming you personally, i'm blaming the entire group. You're right, the smilies are not admins concern but they should be able to say to the smiley makers "take your time with the next power we'll release it in 2 weeks instead of 1 week" but they don't. The smiley makers are forced to take minimal time on their work because admins need more money. But the issue isn't just that you guys should be giving admins things from the do list, they should be actively looking at the forum as a way for people to voice their opinions and they're not. 

 

47 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Since Contributors is not a some secret society, and the secrecy is in place so honest (and sometimes brutal) opinions can be posted, I can give everyone an idea of what kind of issues we have commented on in the past (and have been successful in changing):

  • Inactive Help chats being redirected to Assistance, hoping to bring some life to Assistance and build a bigger community around users who do not have their own dedicated chats.
  • Location Update being changed for non paid users
  • Setting up the Facebook contest
  • Previously owned inactive chats and short names being able to be put on sale again.
  • Icons for the Forum and Wiki being added to the links at the top left of chats.

There's more, but the forum has been cleared up several times. These are not massively important issues, yet this does prove that Contributors are listened to.

Inactive help chats has came up numerous times and it really isn't a hard answer and shouldn't even take up a thread. I'm sure volunteers have the ability to use their initiative and decide that the inactive chats should be redirected. The location update being changed to non paid users is another thing that should be obvious. Being away from your house then being forced to pay to get a location update is honestly moronic. The facebook contest is something I think should be discussed, but is it going to actually do anything to benefit xat? No. The inactive chats and shortnames is something that should of been done a long time ago, and that is something that you guys have actually done which is beneficial. icons for the forum and wiki should of been added anyway and you guys shouldn't have to make a post or even reply to a thread about it because it's common knowledge. 

 

47 minutes ago, Daniel said:

If it is the general belief that Contributors are largely irrelevant (and I sort of agree to this), find a use for us. We have a level of trust with Admins and we are happy to be ambassadors, if you'd let us do so rather than slating the group as a whole. 

The easiest way for you to do this is have a thread where people can suggest things that you put forward, and again none of you have gone out of your way to do this and it's resulted in a thread being made by Danns for it to even come to light. Again I'm not blaming individuals, it's a group wide problem. 

 

47 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Contributors aside, it seems that the main issue of this thread is the classic "ticket system problem". I also see a Admins are taking a lot of hits for this, yet the Volunteers are almost entirely responsible for the system. The departments that have been "delayed" since as long as I can remember, are in all aspects of the word, an even more elitist group within the already elitist Volunteers group. I think that some attention should be brought to high ranking volunteers, and the fact they are seemingly unwilling to open up their group to help alleviate the delays.

This is where I'll begin discussing volunteers. A huge portion of this is their fault. They're not willing to actually do anything to tell admins about things. They're not even willing to post on this thread. Volunteers should be the ones who are pushing admins to fix xat and do something about the magnitude of issues on THEIR website. But they're not. This is an issue and an issue that needs to be fixed.

 

Personally, I don't think any of the current volunteers have a backbone. They're far from willing to post their opinion without the fear that admins are going to do something to them. I refer to Spell a lot in my posts, and there is a valid reasoning for it. He was one of the few people who would actually push admins to change things and progress in a forward motion. Without him, look where xat has gone. It's gone on a downwards spiral because no one is there to give admins the kick they need, although volunteers shouldn't have to do that.

 

I understand theres a lot of volunteers who will express their unwillingness to push admins, but @Brandon, you should be one of the people who are going out of your way to get things changed, so we see them and you're not. 

 

This should never of been a thing that the users had to express their opinions about, it should of been something volunteers mentioned in their private forum or within a public one, however they didn't. A lot of the issues here are because volunteers are not willing to do anything about the problems. 

 

@Admin Your turn.

 

This is your business, it gives you income, why are you so unwilling to actually listen to your users? Without us, your income wouldn't exist and the way you're going there will be no users. Start actually listening to people, giving your input on situations and in the end doing something about the problems which are mentioned to you. You posted a video about faith, do something that gives us faith in you. Companies post a yearly business plan, facebook is a prime example of this with their F8 summits yearly, post one. Tell us what you're planning, what new things are coming and give us estimated dates. It won't happen overnight but its a start. Your reluctancy to actually post a valid response is only showing that you don't care and it is an issue that needs addressing. 

 

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2 hours ago, Karl said:

A few years back, I created a list with the help of Mike of about 50+ bugs. Mike asked me personally to create this list so he could give it to admins. I don't they have actually been fixed. Theres probably maybe 10 that have. If I can find the list, I'll post it in an edited reply. The fact is, people are willing to HELP find them, and are open to doing it for no reward at all. The fact is once they're found they're not fixed which is the problem. Unless you actually provide the actual fix, which isn't always as easy as it sounds, then they don't seem to actually do anything with the reports. 

I am currently pushing my idea of a bugs/issues forum with the help of @muffins, who is in contact with the admins about that. I am pretty sure that forum and the concept i've written down would change things positively and its a step in the right direction.

 

I don't have a definite response yet of whether its going to be done or not. If not, i'd extend the bugs/issues of my to-do-list in a new thread and add priority tags, perhaps screenshots and so on. Not sure which topic it was on the forum, but when we mentioned issues and stuff, the admin asked of a list by priority. However since an 'official' unique bugs forum section with the consent and attendance of the admins, a prefix system, a quality assurance team and with the fact that u can easily keep track of issues, would work much better, i preferred that.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Admin said:

I find your lack of sense of humour amusing.

 

Actually I have not read it yet it's on my todo list ...

 

Glad you finally managed to give a response with words instead of a video. However you've again failed to address anything. The fact is, you're doing absolutely nothing and need to. Simple.

 

Post your todo list here, include the part where you actually read everyones replies and do something with the information you've managed to take in, if any. 

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1 minute ago, Admin said:

I find your lack of sense of humour amusing.

 

Actually I have not read it yet it's on my todo list ...

I understand it was something you did out of humor. But if you read the post, then you would have noticed the ambient.

 

It's not generally good etiquette, to respond to something by just reading the title.

 

And your "to-do list" MUST be insanely huge with all the things xat needs. Where do you place the importance of this on your to-do list? Will you ever get around to it? like the other ideas that were great..?

 

@Admin

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Face it, xat is basically dead. Honestly, it could've been prevented if a little more effort was put into the site. (Not saying they didn't put any effort into it at all) Make more function powers perhaps? Not to mention the chat lag users get with certain smiley combinations. As for the xat community, you all complain too much, which is why it seems as though the Admins have stopped caring and have left the powers to smiley makers. My honest opinion on the post, I say this wouldn't be necessary at all if Admins would fix the bugs and try to improve the site as a whole. The way I see it, it's almost like playing "Tug-of-War", everyone complains or demands for something, like the Ruby pawn for instance. Ruby was a great idea, however, users complained about the price being "too expensive". I agree with Karl's post mentioning tickets. Yeah, tickets take a long time to be answered. Complaining isn't going to make the process any faster. On the Admin's part, they could try listening to the users and their ideas on how to bring in more users. Vols could make more of an effort to help. Instead of telling people to "make a ticket", they could try helping them with their issue. One thing I don't understand about the ticket system is the "paid user" categories. Why do you have to be a paid user to request a shortname, or ask a question? Anyways, that's my point of view. (I doubt anyone will care to read this but it's worth a shot I guess)

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3 hours ago, Madison said:

@Admin Witty Star Wars reply, but I don't think that this is the proper time nor is it the right place for it. This topic for many people is something very serious. We've all stayed on xat because we enjoy the site and what it has to offer- and I don't think that everything everybody has contributed to this thread should be taken as a joke / brushed off that easily. People have taken time to reflect and come up with ideas on how xat can improve, and you out of us all should be the most supportive of this.

This site is dead, just face it.

I have better things in life to do than sit on this site, and I suggest you find those things.

 

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17 minutes ago, Unity said:

<snip snip snip>

 

Great reply, although I have one issue with it. Contributors are not above 'normal' users and should never be considered above them. That aside, it's nice to see a contributor giving a thoughtful reply that isn't just defending xat because they're scared of losing their non-existent power. 

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2 minutes ago, Karl said:

 

Great reply, although I have one issue with it. Contributors are not above 'normal' users and should never be considered above them. That aside, it's nice to see a contributor giving a thoughtful reply that isn't just defending xat because they're scared of losing their non-existent power. 

 

I didn't mean to make Contributors sound like some elitist group, I just believe that the intention when admins created the group was to have users who would be "above" normal users in the sense that their opinions would hold more weight on issues discussed in their private forum than normal users' would.

 

Also it is my honest belief that I had more "power" as a Trade perm mod in 2011 than I do now as a contributor so I totally agree with you about the whole non-existent power thing

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3 minutes ago, Unity said:

 

I didn't mean to make Contributors sound like some elitist group, I just believe that the intention when admins created the group was to have users who would be "above" normal users in the sense that their opinions would hold more weight on issues discussed in their private forum than normal users' would.

 

Also it is my honest belief that I had more "power" as a Trade perm mod in 2011 than I do now as a contributor so I totally agree with you about the whole non-existent power thing

 

When contributors were first made, there was no special indication of who they were. The wiki page was non-existent, we didn't have fancy badges or anything. Adding all of these things has infact made the contributors think they are more important than they really are. In the end, contributors are not above anyone and because you can see a private forum it doesn't make you above someone.

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7 minutes ago, Karl said:

 

When contributors were first made, there was no special indication of who they were. The wiki page was non-existent, we didn't have fancy badges or anything. Adding all of these things has infact made the contributors think they are more important than they really are. In the end, contributors are not above anyone and because you can see a private forum it doesn't make you above someone.

 

I would have no problem with being removed from the wiki and/or having the badge taken away (although I am 100% certain that a few current contributors would).

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2 minutes ago, Unity said:

 

I would have no problem with being removed from the wiki and/or having the badge taken away (although I am 100% certain that a few current contributors would).

 

I'm not in anyway trying to say that you care about the badge or the wiki thing, because that shouldn't be the main focus of the group. The fact that certain people are unwilling to just have all of that gone is the problem and they should infact be removed from the group because they're not there to help benefit xat, they're just their to look like they're somewhat important. 

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4 minutes ago, Karl said:

 

I'm not in anyway trying to say that you care about the badge or the wiki thing, because that shouldn't be the main focus of the group. The fact that certain people are unwilling to just have all of that gone is the problem and they should infact be removed from the group because they're not there to help benefit xat, they're just their to look like they're somewhat important. 

 

I agree with you 100%, anyone who needs a status symbol to feel important online is a part of the problem

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There has been new contributors made to try and make the group more diverse as possible and I understand where everyone is coming from and while the secret forum is there to discuss things for the greater good of the xat community we mostly only comment on things admins create.

We have no special powers and I actually don't know why we have a special symbol on the chat or wiki as all we do is comment generally on some topics. 

In regards to what we speak about I am not going to leak anything we discuss but you can guess for yourself from what others have said we talk about. 

Contributors were made to give the xat community a stronger voice but as Unity has mentioned we have tried this but unless Admins meet us half way these things are going to happen. 

Admins look over the whole forum in general so anyone can really speak up if they wish to do so just create a new thread just like this topic and the whole xat community can get involved. If admins create a topic for us contributors, wiki translators, moderators and volunteers to discuss in private then that's there choice and we will try our best to put the community thoughts across.

Just because we have a secret forum where we discuss things it doesn't mean the whole xat community doesn't have the right to create topics such as this to gather feedback from the whole xat community. The forums were made for discussion and I am actually proud of how much feedback this topic has got and how many different views, thoughts and how many people from the xat community have got involved. 

While we may not of got the response we wanted from admins (as of yet) we know they do look over this but we just have to wait for an outcome but until then we should continue coming together as a community to put forward our concerns, suggestions to make the admins aware of our thoughts and possibly bring new life and content into xat.

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