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Dann

XAT - IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE

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3 hours ago, LaFleur said:

Btw, what you may also consider, the user base might increase once the mobile app is released to public on play store/app store, etc.

By the time mobile does get released to the public there might be barley any users left to use the app in the first place, much less use xat. 

56 minutes ago, dann said:


Regarding your next point, I believe 100% the app will bring in more users, without a doubt. But what is so good about an app, when you need to work on the core. The core of xat is the website chats, you can't make the app good but the chat boxes the same thing as 2008(outdated). To me, it doesn't make sense. If xat was to work on the core, then come to mobile and base the mobile version on the core of xat (a new updated chatbox), then THAT would be considered change.

 

@Admin

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1 hour ago, dann said:

I don't necessarily think that paying a website to use Xat would work. Generally People Search for  things they would like to add to their site ( a chatbox for example). So IMO xat should advertise so that people looking for chats on their site can chose XAT if they like it. Spending money on advertising with search engines will allow people to find Xat easily (by ranking top sites on those specific types of searches) and find what they are looking for. They just need to work with the keywords because finding a chat like this is kind of specific.

The point was, new people that chat trough xat on those websites (big amount of people) may gain interest on subscriptions, powers, look more into xat, what it offers, then might start a group for themselves, etc. Thats how i got into xat. Nonetheless, promoting by people who look for chats on google and else works too, won't deny that.

 

20 minutes ago, TinkerDoodle said:

By the time mobile does get released to the public there might be barley any users left to use the app in the first place, much less use xat. 

I was referring to get new users with it.

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5 hours ago, LaFleur said:
5 hours ago, LaFleur said:

What about paying huge anime sites to use the xat chat (crunchyroll, kissanime, sidereel, anime-loads). This could increase the user base, considering that I and most of my old friends found xat by anime sites. However, i think working on xats chat, features, bugs would have to be done before.

 

Btw, what you may also consider, the user base might increase once the mobile app is released to public on play store/app store, etc.

I made a thread about advertising and one thing I said was what you said about paying other companies/services for ad time/space

http://forum.xat.com/topic/3427-advertising-facebook-twitter-google-bing-etc

 

I think xat should use some of the money for advertising as I mentioned in my post

 

either

 

social media

search engines

tv

radio

newspaper

companies

websites

services

 

I explain about it more in my thread that I made all about advertising

What about paying huge anime sites to use the xat chat (crunchyroll, kissanime, sidereel, anime-loads). This could increase the user base, considering that I and most of my old friends found xat by anime sites. However, i think working on xats chat, features, bugs would have to be done before.

 

Btw, what you may also consider, the user base might increase once the mobile app is released to public on play store/app store, etc.

I made a thread about advertising and one thing I said was what you said about paying other companies/services for ad time/space

http://forum.xat.com/topic/3427-advertising-facebook-twitter-google-bing-etc

 

I think xat should use some of the money for advertising as I mentioned in my post

 

either

 

social media

search engines

tv

radio

newspaper

companies

websites

services

 

I explain about it more in my thread that I made all about advertising

 

idea was brought up by another user

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12 hours ago, LaFleur said:

What about paying huge anime sites to use the xat chat (crunchyroll, kissanime, sidereel, anime-loads). This could increase the user base, considering that I and most of my old friends found xat by anime sites. However, i think working on xats chat, features, bugs would have to be done before.

 

Btw, what you may also consider, the user base might increase once the mobile app is released to public on play store/app store, etc.

Anime WAS extremely popular but we don't want to make it completely a weeb headquarters, your idea is great, but perhaps we can use your idea on more general types of companies.

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20 hours ago, SlOom said:

 

Not going to agree with you; why?

 

Releasing powers on auction power isn't a good idea because not everyone likes it and would rather have it on store directly because some people has no patience.

Releasing powers in days instead of xats isn't a good idea also; Not everyone has 1k days on its account.

Stop releasing powers isn't again a good idea, because people are waiting for a power each week and if it was going to happen, it would be more dead than it is actually; plus the powers theme isn't important, they just need to be creative.

 

Xat is living with powers, xats, days and if you are going to stop everything related to that; you can say bye to xat. I would like to agree, we need more powers auction, auction ID etc.. but actually, admins don't have the mind for or just have no time for (No i'm not talking for them but according to the current situation). It would be cool if one day, something new is coming but actually we can't say since mobile is still the top priority for them since a few years and we can't remove it from them.

 

And it's never too late for xat; If you are saying it's too late, it's that you are not fully interested by make it alive again. Yes a lot of users left xat, but it was probably good for them (Maybe work, school or idk?) because each day there are always new users, we just need to keep them and make them interested about xat. There are a lot of things to do on xat if you are interested by developement web etc.. (Like understand xat packets, how does a bot works, how does the chat works etc..)

 

If i'm still on xat, it's because i got interested by xat packets, bots etc..

See  all you looking for things just go same . People are getting bored of same thing happening again and again . Releasing new powers with power auctions will have a little change . And mostly all the users can have chance to get new powers. Not like always the faster users. 

And secondly releasing powers for days , we have released powers for days earlier too . Thats not a big deal . Most to most , powers release 20 or 30 days each . 

For third , that xat should stop releasing powers weekly  , i agree they cant stop that for common reasons . 

But lets face it . Now xat need some new changes which should attract users back to xat. I am saying just do these things which i have said . But many others users have some good suggestions too . 

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I actually am one to disagree and think that the data breach is not to blame for users leaving xat. Some yes...alot No!

I think that a large portion of xat users streamed sporting events, radios, game sites, etc.  Streaming was shut down....for obvious reasons.

Protection and coding were changed.  THIS lost a large bulk of the users.  

 

I think the only thing to save xat in the long run is to consider what the users actually like, want,  and what would bring more.  Things like allowing custom play lists

to stream music choices, photos, custom movie lists, gaming channels, news, status updates, and to become more user friendly in the long run...even if that replaces the powers

and becomes the paid service portion in the long run, needs to be considered.  A way to do this and NOT be like Facebook, twitter, snapchat, and to have that edge....should be a focus.

 

If you are only going to maintain a chat box and charge for smiley powers, you will only continue to gain users who are looking for this alone.   

 

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@Christina

I was not here during the 2015 data breach, so I wouldn't know. But from my understanding, the residuals of that happening has caused for intense backup in support/ticket system. I don't see how that is still an excuse being used in 2017 BUT... there are users coming back on xat who have to wait over a month on various cases for a response on a held account. All because they were inactive for a while. I find the lack of user support unacceptable.

 

4 hours ago, Christina said:

I think the only thing to save xat in the long run is to consider what the users actually like, want,  and what would bring more.

 

This is sentence essential, but 'they'(Xat Admins) won't even take the time to reply or engage with users. It's frustrating and it feels like Xat is just being Milked of money until it dies, although I want to wish this is not the case, it is the feeling they are portraying on users. They seem to be working, mobile for example.. But what's with the delays? WHY has xat mobile been in development for this long? WHY is xat mobile even in development when the core NEEDS a lot of work, starting with the user support and being re-hauled. I personally don't see as if enough is being done to survey users and find the best way to regain the user base. 

 

Thank you for your opinion.

 

-Dann

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@dann don't worry about this you need to know that things like that the admins see(when vols or some other ppl send they), but don't reply yet because this isn't a thing that can be done in few minutes/hours. Admins are working on others things more, yeah your suggestion is very nice but not for now.

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6 hours ago, dann said:

@Christina

I was not here during the 2015 data breach, so I wouldn't know. But from my understanding, the residuals of that happening has caused for intense backup in support/ticket system. I don't see how that is still an excuse being used in 2017 BUT... there are users coming back on xat who have to wait over a month on various cases for a response on a held account. All because they were inactive for a while. I find the lack of user support unacceptable.

 

 

This is sentence essential, but 'they'(Xat Admins) won't even take the time to reply or engage with users. It's frustrating and it feels like Xat is just being Milked of money until it dies, although I want to wish this is not the case, it is the feeling they are portraying on users. They seem to be working, mobile for example.. But what's with the delays? WHY has xat mobile been in development for this long? WHY is xat mobile even in development when the core NEEDS a lot of work, starting with the user support and being re-hauled. I personally don't see as if enough is being done to survey users and find the best way to regain the user base. 

 

Thank you for your opinion.

 

-Dann

Essentially, the admins trust the volunteers and contributors to relay the users opinions and feelings, wants, and needs.  The ticket delay being backed up because of data breach is a bogus excuse.  There were far less volunteers and prob. 5 times the ticket number in my day.  Am I going to blame volunteers for this...NO!  I understand the frustration level there and wanting to do more.  The users, contributors, and the volunteers can only do so much.  In the end...it comes down to ADMINS.  I blame them alone.  Only THEY can change things.  I personally feel at this point that they are happy doing very little and getting by. I took 2 days before I even replied to this thread due to frustration of seeing so many threads similar through the years with little or nothing done.  I also do not want to always appear negative for a site that I use to love.  

 

On the other end...you have 2 men who rely on free help to code, create powers, answer tickets, and do other countless tedious jobs to ensure the site runs well and to ensure that users are happy.  They CAN NOT be everywhere at once and listen to everyone.Therefor...they also do the best job that they can.  For years I have heard...hire someone.  Its just not what they want. Perhaps they are proud of pioneering the way for the other sites I mentioned and that is their legacy and it alone makes them complete.

 

I have recently worked on just accepting things for being what they are.  I can't change it.  I've learned to let go of the trivial things and to focus on the people that mean alot to me on the site instead.  I'm proud that I was here when the site was epic.  

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1 hour ago, Karl said:

-snip-

Did you really write all this? :$:d:o

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3 minutes ago, Bau said:

Did you really write all this? :$:d:o

Yeah, impressive. I know!

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5 minutes ago, Karl said:

Yeah, impressive. I know!

I have moments when I have no words
 This is a moment when I remain speechless!(wailing)

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2 hours ago, Karl said:

A lot of the early volunteers, Alex, Jesse, Christina, Charlie (theres probs more but yeah cool dude) dedicated a huge amount of time to benefit xat

You forgot Jamesey, never forget Jamesey. :@

2 hours ago, Karl said:

Theres a select few who aren't like that, I'm only going to list Brandon

Wrong.

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11 hours ago, Karl said:

<snip>

Could not agree with you more for the most part...but you already know that, as we use to have countless discussions on the subjects.  I really do not have much to add or debate that you have not covered.  

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10 hours ago, LeJon said:

You forgot Jamesey, never forget Jamesey. :@

The post clearly states that I'm talking about old volunteers, the starting ones or very close to. The 4 that I listed were volunteers for far longer than Jamesey. 

9 hours ago, JoshuaRivenbark said:

Unbiased at its finest.

As I've been on both sides of the potential argument, I think that I've been as unbiased as possible. Thanks RoshuaJivenbark. <3

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13 hours ago, Karl said:

I totally understand this is an extremely lengthy post, that consists of blocks of text only but if you want to read my opinions then here it is.

I'm going to cover the issues I personally think there are, and probably not include fixes becus uno eh

As someone whos been on xat a stupidily long time I can say I have a good overview of this stuffs.

Karl, Id' like to start of by thanking you for taking the time to express your opinion. That's the whole point of this post, and your reply is a perfect representation of how a user feels about xat.

 

I agree with a lot of your points, and some I have a slightly different opinion. I will be touching on some that I have a different opinion on.

Forum

Forum is very important, It's a central point for people to voice their thoughts, allowing for people to post a message and have it stick there for viewing(long as it doesn't get deleted). Also allowing for staff to review points and take a look at things in the future. Maybe you're right, suggestion section and features/games section are the most important part of the forum. But it's definitely beneficial for xat.(IMO)

Contributors

13 hours ago, Karl said:

My suggestion on what the group SHOULD of been

The quote above was in regards to contributors. I would also like to give my suggestion of what the group should have been.

The contributor group should have been a group gathered by XAT. A group of users who don't necessarily rely on the opinion of xat/volunteers to articulate the voice of the community. It should be a group who is not afraid to reject ideas brought forward by staff/volunteers if believed to not be beneficial to the xat community. It should of been a group who speaks for the community and pushes for beneficial changes to be made. In conclusion, it should have been the "communities" group of ambassadors that speak for the community. But it all goes back to ONE thing you stated on this section and it is quoted below:

13 hours ago, Karl said:

The major issue with that group, is whilst in there, it actually felt like you had a say until it was discussed further, where at that point your opinion became invalid regardless of how valid the points were.

Points/Issues that turn into discussion should have some sort of resolution, and if there is no resolution, there is really NO NEED for a group like this. It should be a group that Xat actually listens to and come to a conclusion. Without what has been mentioned, there is really no point in having these groups. For example; this group should PUSH for xat to fix the User Support issue. IN MY HONEST OPINION this is the most important thing at the moment. Xat should take a couple days to fix this system, it doesn't need that much work, I get that mobile is priority. But you can't let xat die while you focus on your "PRIORITY". Users wanting to come back WILL NOT want to come back if they have to wait 1-6 months to retrieve an account, or to be able to purchase xats. It's just ridiculous and that's what these groups should be pushing for.

 

On to my next point; the following quote is regarding paid staff.

PAID STAFF

13 hours ago, Karl said:

when they're extremely far away, different countries, without a local HQ its very hard to do so.

I get that it's hard to do this, but it is NOT impossible. You can have a team work on a central computer while monitoring everything that is being done (and without displaying critical info like credentials for databases, etc etc.). The point is for people to multi-task. Previously I was working for a software, two of the people were US based, different parts of US. And other two were based off of india (outsourcing). We each worked with one of the developers and we were able to get work done at 4x the rate of speed. SO it is possible, as long as they get monitored and work together on specific project. When it comes to security.. these people are just looking to get paid, and won't jeopardize that for anything, also they don't need direct access to your entire source (keeping credentials and sensitive info in the code secluded) they can just sort of develop something and admins simply implement it into the code (with developers knowing the context). eg. admins would like new mini-chat. These developers can write the code (based on context of original code). And xat can simply implement it. This could have been done with the ENTIRE app tbh. You could of hired a team of two to work on the app, while you work on the core. IT WOULD NOT BE EASY TO IMPLEMENT IF XAT IS NOT UP FOR CHANGE. so I agree, would be hard but not impossible.I also don't need to mention how easy it is to 'replicate' (rip), xat.

 

Chat Design

And lastly; the chat design. Oh,... the chat design. I will post a couple pictures, and you tell me if xat needs to change. (content is irrelevant, was just capturing for reporting)

xat trade 12/31/2009:

xatcomscreencapture2009-12-31-12-56.png

Xat social 4/20/2017

2zp4n0p.png

 

This is an 8 year difference. The chat really hasn't had any cosmetic upgrades apart from the button color style. And allowing CSS customization. Some people are still okay with this (shrug), me personally believe it should change. To something slicker/more modern.

 

Once again, I'd like to thank you Karl. For your thought out response, I hope more users will take the time to do this.

 

- Dann

 

EDIT: @Karl

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45 minutes ago, dann said:

Chat Design

And lastly; the chat design. Oh,... the chat design. I will post a couple pictures, and you tell me if xat needs to change. (content is irrelevant, was just capturing for reporting)

It's xat's identity, they can't change how it looks like.

The only thing they can change is the code behind this.

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11 minutes ago, Jedi said:

It's xat's identity, they can't change how it looks like.

The only thing they can change is the code behind this.

Well Jedi, I'll point out some of the 'big' companies who manage to keep their 'identity' while changing their look. You ready?

 

These groups consist of OS changes, Design Changes, overall feel changes. (and still keep their identity)

microsoft.

Apple..

Samsung...

Well ...  ALL technology companies.

 

Companies move with the times, design changes, core changes, user accommodation and easy of use,  and they still keep their originality. This is essential in the tech world or you will be left behind by the others. I feel as if xat has just lost its ability to be innovate AND be creative. 

 

YOU CAN DEFINETLY CHANGE THE DESIGN AND KEEP YOUR IDENTITY AND ORIGINALITY. That's the point of this post.

 

Thank you for your opinion @Jedi, I just happen to disagree on this one.

 

 

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Thanks for actually giving your own opinion based on my points, having views numerous different people is always beneficial. 

 

Forum

I think the strongest point for the forums is that the posts in fact are there until deleted. I didn't think about this in my original response and now you've raised the point it's extremely valid. The only issue I have with it, is how often are old posts reviewed again and something done based on them. I can say that a few of the power suggestions from a few years back, have been added, but thats only down to the smiley makers actively looking for suggestions. 

By staff, I'm assuming you mean xat staff, and I don't actually think they really care about what most people have to say. If they're ever on the forum they're barely ever actually looking at posts that 'normal' people can see. They're either replying/reading to contributors stuff or things volunteers raise. A prime example of this is the issue thats been around for a while regarding the login email thing. They posted in the section once and it's not something that only affects a handful of people. They've failed to actually  continue to checkup to see if the issue persists and really give any kind of information on a fix, which in my opinion they should. 

 

Contributors

In terms of your idea of what the group should be, I think thats a very logical idea. Considering they'll spend more time interacting on the actual chat side of the website, compared to volunteers and staff, they could potentially have a greater idea of what could benefit the users. They should be able to differentiate between a beneficial idea for everyone and an idea that only benefits a select few people. The problem is they can't, and if a volunteer suggests something then it's always a clean sweep with a 'yes' or a 'good idea' which really benefits no one. 

 

Points raised were never actually turned into a discussion, I can't speak for now and maybe things have changed but I'll just use my past experience to give you a small insight. I'm not really sure how much detail I can go into without this part being removed. Points would be raised, a few people would give their opinions, eventually the thread would die because no one was willing to counter previous points provided. Every now and then admins would post in there, but it was never about issues it was normally just to suggest new powers or maybe the odd reply to a bug report. Before I was removed, the only posts that were made were either relating to people being added, or to report inappropriate chats/users. If the group is there just to suggest more people to join without giving useful input then I agree with you, there is no need for it. Back then, there was no need for it and it literally felt like it was just a group to make you feel like you're more important than other people, which was never the original intention. 

 

It's very hard for the group to really push for things like fixing support. Issues like that should be mentioned by contributors, but in the end it isn't their job to deal with things like that. It's up to the volunteers to actively pressure the admins in terms of ticket related things. No one really knows what goes on behind the scenes, unless you were a volunteer or are currently one. But it's extremely obvious that there is a backlog of tickets. Just like if this was a business in a different sector, for example retail, and was overwhelmed with orders, more people would be hired to cover the workload. 

If you read the threads where people say that more volunteers need to be added, volunteers will constantly say "adding more people isn't going to fix the issue" and to an extent they are right, it won't. But it will certainly fix some of the issues as they can make it so some of the current ones can be moved up to deal with the departments with more tickets, and allow the newer volunteers to deal with the departments such as locked out. However, when they say things like that, to me, it looks like they are personally extremely reluctant to allow anyone else to become a volunteer. 

 

Paid staff

You're totally right it isn't impossible and in my original post it was never my intention to make it sound like that. I think it comes down to trust. As I previously said, it's very difficult to trust someone that you don't know personally especially with something like your business. The staff, are going to be handling extremely confidential information, payment information, and if something like that gets leaked then it could cause no end of legal issues. 

Hiring developers is something that should of been done a long time ago, but they should also hire management staff to run the volunteers and ensure that these backlogs are NOT there. Marketing as well as customer relations should also be a priority. 

 

So theres two sides to this argument, for one it would benefit the users no end. Which in the end is going to make people want to stay and also potentially bring in new people. But it also opens up a huge risk which many people are going to be reluctant to take. And their reluctantly to take that risk is understandable, however sometimes you need to take risks to see the reward.

 

Chat design

This ties back into something I said previously, HTML5. Some slight graphical changes, to make the chat look more appealing without taking away the fundemtnal basics could actually really help. 

 

As long as these basics remain;
Userlist 
Pawns

I think they're actually the main ones that need to stay, theres probably a few more.

 

If there was more freedom around the way people could make the chat look itself, then it would make every chat original and different. I understand that there is already the option to change the backgrounds, then theres tabs and gline, gcontrol and stuff but it really doesn't make anything different. The fact is xat are in a market with other chat systems and the fact is they're really far behind. There is certainly some things that could change without changing the fundamental things that xat has which other chat systems don't have. 

 

 

I've just seen your post replying to Jedi and I'll quickly cover the main point that you made.

 

All these technology companies give you the option to upgrade, leaving you the ability to still use the old one, unless you buy new hardware which has the new software already installed. These however all keep the same fundamental values which differentiate and make them similar to the original product. 

Finding the right balance between the similarities and differences between the current chat design is what needs to happen, which should in fact be a community discussion.

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19 minutes ago, Admin said:

 

I find it disturbing that this is your response to this post. I really do. IF anything, your response would be the cause for lack of faith.

 

17 minutes ago, Karl said:

However, I don't think the lack of faith is anyones issue other than your own. The fact you've allowed these issues to amount is whats caused the lack of faith.

@Karlcouldn't have said it any better.

 

@Admin 

 

If there was a lack of faith, this post wouldn't exist. That's all I have to say on this.

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21 minutes ago, Admin said:

 

 

HClIhGQ.png

 

Though it's more than I've ever seen before it's somewhat progress

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