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Lemona

Is the downvote really necessary in the General Support forum?

LaFleur

The downvote has been removed from General Support.

Message added by LaFleur

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Why was the down vote button for the help thread even added back? It was fine when there was only the up vote button. If someone tries to help, they shouldn't be down voted.... if anything the vols (future mods? cough crow cough) can just delete replies that have absolutely nothing with the question a person is asking. 

 

I see as the support threads are great practice for users who might want to be staff on help or just want to help others in general, if they might be down voted for asking "can you give more information please" (not that I've seen this happen yet) then they'll be discouraged. 

 

But yeah, why did the down vote option get added back anyway? Was there a legit reason for this, or?

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I noticed that on the last (English) general support question. I was actually quite surprised there were two users with -4 votes. Their answers weren't even uninformative either, just not complete.

 

I figure the vote up/down system was implemented to distinguish the thoughtful, informative responses from the quick, unhelpful ones. I find up voting useful for the fact that it can distinguish them without having a negative side to it, either a post gets up votes or no votes. However, volunteers decide the "best answer" for the question anyway, so there isn't a need to down vote.

 

I didn't know the down vote button was removed - I would have liked to keep it that way in my opinion. From the example above, the users were actually trying to give input, they didn't deserve the -4 down vote. This looks bad on their part meanwhile they were sincerely trying to help. This discourages users from helping and that's not the idea, we all want to come together on the forum as a "community".

 

As Lemona said, the user could be learning about xat and attempting to help users to the best of their ability. Just because they don't know as much as another user doesn't mean they should be discouraged from helping. I say remove the down vote button (again?).

 

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I agree...I do not think anyone should be "downvoted" for being helpful.  Its a learning experience for all.

I think it gives opportunity for people to downvote those they do not like.

I was never in favor of a voting system period, as I feel it just adds to that popularity measure.

We see it each day with people liking posts of volunteer or admins, per example.

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I agree. there should be no need to have a voting system. I get why volunteers choose the best answer but for the xat community to vote answers up and down is silly and pointless. Why would something like this need to be done in the first place? Anyone replying to a thread in that section will most likely be replying for a positive reason and if  the response is not relevant then that's why we have fourm staff to delete and keep these kind of posts to a minium.

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1 hour ago, SJBB said:

I agree. there should be no need to have a voting system. I get why volunteers choose the best answer but for the xat community to vote answers up and down is silly and pointless. Why would something like this need to be done in the first place? Anyone replying to a thread in that section will most likely be replying for a positive reason and if  the response is not relevant then that's why we have fourm staff to delete and keep these kind of posts to a minium.

 

I definitely agree. We should not have a voting system at all, because the reason volunteers/forum moderators are there is to pick best answer and close the topic from further posts being made, and it shouldn't be needed for support. Now, I could see how up/down voting could be useful in regular threads, since you'd want to see popular posts first.

 

Very sad to see this from xat.

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Okay so let's say a user asks a question in the General Support forum and someone replies with something that's not helpful at all. Since that answer was posted first it's the first answer the user in need of help sees. This is where downvote comes in handy.

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It was added because there was an influx of people repeating answers and adding unnecessary, minuscule details. It's as if it's become a competition to post the most detail to try to get marked best answer (which is quite silly). Technically this is against the forum rules, but giving warning points (especially on the first offense) seems pretty strict. 

 

I don't know how effective it will be or if it will be used properly, but that's why it was added.

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Just now, Steven said:

It was added because there was an influx of people repeating answers and adding unnecessary, minuscule details. It's as if it's become a competition to post the most detail to try to get marked best answer (which is quite silly). Technically this is against the forum rules, but giving warning points (especially on the first offense) seems pretty strict.

 

The questions in this thread have been answered and the best answer has been marked. If you have another question, open another thread.

 

Thanks @Steven

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3 minutes ago, Mark said:

Okay so let's say a user asks a question in the General Support forum and someone replies with something that's not helpful at all. Since that answer was posted first it's the first answer the user in need of help sees. This is where downvote comes in handy.

Doesn't mean there will be more answers eventually. The marked answer is normally the best answer there or if a volunteer feels the need to respond as well. The marked answer would then be the TOP answer and would be the go-to answer to follow. :p 

 

1 minute ago, Steven said:

It was added because there was an influx of people repeating answers and adding unnecessary, minuscule details. 

Yes however the support forum is open to everyone meaning anyone is allowed to respond. If you really don't want minuscule answers, why not just delete them? The support forum should be similar to the Yahoo questions. There is one best answer that answers the question(s) asked with a bunch of other answers that could be good or not below it. The downvote is discouraging users which is somewhat sad.  I really don't see how the downvote would do any good. 

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21 minutes ago, Steven said:

It was added because there was an influx of people repeating answers and adding unnecessary, minuscule details.

I can see the issue with this. However, I still don't see a need for down voting.

 

It's basically the same difference without it. Users can still up vote the more informative posts; the only difference is now users won't get down voted. Instead they could be left with 0 votes, while the more helpful posts got up voted. Ultimately leading to a volunteer selecting a "best answer" anyway...

 

I've noticed firsthand that you could be typing a response once a question is posted and by the time you post the response, there are already multiple replies. I'm sure this has happened to other users and maybe their response wasn't as detailed as someone who had posted before them. Of course this is not their fault (and in this case I would suggest hiding the post) but if that happened to you and you got down voted 4 times, would you feel bad or discouraged?

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5 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Of course this is not their fault (and in this case I would suggest hiding the post) but if that happened to you and you got down voted 4 times, would you feel bad or discouraged?

1

Yes, I would feel discouraged and put off from replying to future posts if this happened to me. I also agree with what others have said about making people look bad if my post was marked down just because someone else beat me to responding first or because mine wasn't detailed correctly. I also agree with Christina as to how this can turn into a popularity contest to see who could get the highest ranked answer and most helpful user. 

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That goes by the 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all'...

 

I don't think it should be there.

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Serious question: would people feel less discouraged/angry and more understanding if their posts were removed and they were warned privately, as opposed to being downvoted?

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22 minutes ago, Steven said:

Serious question: would people feel less discouraged/angry and more understanding if their posts were removed and they were warned privately, as opposed to being downvoted?

I still don't quite understand why a post should be removed unless if the answer makes no sense, isn't anything that has to do with the question or isn't following the forum guidelines. As a xat community, we should be encouraging users to help others and gain knowledge that could benefit themselves and other users. Downvoting is doing nothing positive in encouraging this either. There wasn't much of a problem with just the up vote honestly. So what if there are other answers. We are a community and should be there to help even if it  means your answer isn't marked as the best. 

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3 minutes ago, Lemona said:

I still don't quite understand why a post should be removed unless if the answer makes no sense, isn't anything that has to do with the question or isn't following the forum guidelines. As a xat community, we should be encouraging users to help others and gain knowledge that could benefit themselves and other users. Downvoting is doing nothing positive in encouraging this either. There wasn't much of a problem with just the up vote honestly. So what if there are other answers. We are a community and should be there to help even if it doesn't mean your answer is the best. 

 

Exactly, A users post should only be removed if its off topic or against the rules of the forum. Why should a user be told off privately for repeating answers, answering in a different way to the way others have etc. If this is the way the forum is heading then I do not want to be part of it as I would be to worried I am going to upset someone or get myself in trouble for responding in a wrong way to someone post.

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It's always been an "unwritten rule" of the forum that once one person has posted the correct answer, the thread should be left alone. 

 

I think the problem is that we're getting a bunch of answers with unnecessary detail, some completely wrong, and that makes it confusing for the person needing help. Sure we eventually mark an answer as "best," but that often takes hours. In today's case, there were several conflicting or just straight up confusing answers (due to all the unnecessary detail) and the person was clearly confused.

 

After all, the ultimate goal of general support threads is to help someone, and I feel like the focus has shifted to competing for best answer (the PC's I've gotten these past few days are evidence of that). 

 

Quote

16. Make sure your replies are thoughtful, otherwise they may be seen as spam posts. Focus on post quality.

In my opinion, posting the same answers falls under this guideline; restating what's already been said is not thoughtful, nor is it necessary (or even remotely helpful).

 

I do understand why people feel it's harsh to not accept these posts from people who are just trying to help, though. Hopefully we can think of a solution to appease both sides.

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10 minutes ago, Steven said:

It's always been an "unwritten rule" of the forum that once one person has posted the correct answer, the thread should be left alone. 

 

No, it hasn't. Sometimes the "correct" answer didn't contain all of the information, or there wasn't a summed up answer that can easily be marked as best answer for future reference to other users who encountered a similar problem. If a thread had several answers without all of the information or incorrect information, it might not make sense to the OP, so you can't say it should be left alone.

 

Questions should be answered professionally and in a way that can be easy to understand for the original poster or a user that has a similar problem and has stumbled upon the thread. 

 

Allowing downvoting would discourage this.

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Although my opinion may not matter but I personally think that the downvote feature will force users to be upset as well as others have stated above. The forums was doing fine as well with just the like button there. Do we really need a downvote button again? I don't think so.

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I understand both sides but there is a difference that people should understand.

 

OK:

Replying to a question sincerely and another user happens to give a more relevant response afterward

Starting to reply to a new question and by the time you post there are more replies

 

Bad:

Seeing there is a well detailed answer and still responding for the sake of replying

Posting quickly with minimal information or thought to "try to be first"

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It's for separating good answers and bad answers.

 

It's pretty obvious to me why the answers were downvoted. In fact, here's why:  

 

Tan, your answer states that they should just abandon their other account and use their alternative and then links to the buy page. They've already paid and know where the page is. Just because you edited in information after about reserve doesn't make it good. 

 

Finna, all your answer did was provide bias information and recommend a reseller which certainly does not answer the question. 

 

SJBB is in the same boat as Finna. 

 

I dont see what's unfair? Junior and Kyle provided correct information and answered the question and the rest did not. 

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Daniel, I was telling the user about the resellers so they don't get reserved again.

 

It's a better option to go to a trusted reseller for xats other than to wait a year for their reserve to expire don't you think?

 

I don't see how that doesn't answer the question they were asking for.

 

I was just giving a helpful tip since they were asking on others input to their situation.

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52 minutes ago, tan said:

Sometimes the "correct" answer didn't contain all of the information

I feel this is where I (and others who agree with me) am being misunderstood. The correct or best answer does not necessarily contain all information on the subject; it just contains enough information to satisfy the OP. It's about quality of information, not quantity of information, and there is definitely value in conciseness. 

 

Now I don't necessarily agree that downvotes are the way to go here, but I do agree that doing nothing is a poor choice.

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I'm sure it is. However, the question was "What are the risks of buying with PayPal on a second account?" not "I want to buy xats from a reseller post your favourite below". 

 

If you were to include information about reserve, and then also give general information about resellers (not saying buy from Bryan he is the best!!!) maybe you wouldn't have been downvoted. 

 

Ultimately your reply does not follow up on the question, nor contain any information about recovering the account. 

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I agree with Finna. The question may have already been answered but if I can speak for a reseller to say that I have bought from them before and I would recommend them. If a user recommends said that to me then I would appreciate their advice. 

 

I understand what you are saying and why my answer got marked down but I am speaking about the markdown button in general. 

 

Is it the way to go forward or will it stop/discourage people from wanting to reply to a post.

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