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New pawn for influencers


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5 hours ago, Leandro said:

i cannot believe how hard the conversation must be for them to be given a different role on the forum in the first place. it still amazes me the hate the same community gaves the people making this site work.

Have you actually read the concerns in this thread? Absolutely nobody is hating on anybody. 

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Posted (edited)

it feels like a good amount of this thread is people conflating criticism with hate/negativity

 

fwiw, toxic positivity is a very real thing and is one of the main reasons for why this site has been stagnating imo. a good amount of this community will often readily accept things that are bare minimum / subpar / inefficient, purely because of the view that we should be grateful for what we get; wanting more or wanting a better alternative is seen as 'hateful', 'negative', 'childish'

Edited by Flake
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1 hour ago, Flake said:

it feels like a good amount of this thread is people conflating criticism with hate/negativity

 

fwiw, toxic positivity is a very real thing and is one of the main reasons for why this site has been stagnating imo. a good amount of this community will often readily accept things that are bare minimum / subpar / inefficient, purely because of the view that we should be grateful for what we get; wanting more or wanting a better alternative is seen as 'hateful', 'negative', 'childish'

Anyone who has any rank on xat, help chats, etc... They always knew it was a kind of volunteer job, they started helping simply because they liked it. Anything these people are going to received is always welcome, and they will defend it, fact. Anyone who doesn't like how this work can just leave at any time, volunteers/smileymakers/devs/gamemakers etc don't have any kind of contract with xat, they aren't obligated to help. They do it because it's their hobby, they like it, many take it seriously enough to "consider a job" (I've read people saying that)

 

Everyone who is part of xat in some way has learned a lot over time, whether it's about coding (me), design, communication or even other people's culture. No money in world can pay for that, I say from experience, even though I haven't received much from xat over the years (powers/xats/days), I can say that learned a lot of things that was very useful in real life.

 

And, these people's complaints are ungrateful (or nonsense), since THEY ACCEPTED THEIR RANK, when the email reached each of the volunteers they accepted, they weren't added and forced to work for free.

 

But ok, speaking of the business view, I know that a social network like xat could have paid employees (support/developers), fact. But why would you pay for something that others do for free? It wouldn't make sense, uh? Tip: No.

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@Bauwait wait, you are misunderstanding I am not saying that volunteers do not deserve this award but what I simply want to say is that besides them obviously taking time for the site BY THEIR CHOICE, no one is obliged to do so this is my concept how they are awarded them for the time dedicated to helping people should also be rewarded the user who spends money to make the site work, I mean that all users are a fundamental part of xat.com starting from the volunteer to the last user. As for scams, there is a guide to avoiding scams.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, xLaming said:

Anyone who has any rank on xat, help chats, etc... They always knew it was a kind of volunteer job, they started helping simply because they liked it. Anything these people are going to received is always welcome, and they will defend it, fact. Anyone who doesn't like how this work can just leave at any time, volunteers/smileymakers/devs/gamemakers etc don't have any kind of contract with xat, they aren't obligated to help. They do it because it's their hobby, they like it, many take it seriously enough to "consider a job" (I've read people saying that)

 

Everyone who is part of xat in some way has learned a lot over time, whether it's about coding (me), design, communication or even other people's culture. No money in world can pay for that, I say from experience, even though I haven't received much from xat over the years (powers/xats/days), I can say that learned a lot of things that was very useful in real life.

 

And, these people's complaints are ungrateful (or nonsense), since THEY ACCEPTED THEIR RANK, when the email reached each of the volunteers they accepted, they weren't added and forced to work for free.

 

But ok, speaking of the business view, I know that a social network like xat could have paid employees (support/developers), fact. But why would you pay for something that others do for free? It wouldn't make sense, uh? Tip: No.

 

Great, and just because the staff sign up for no pay shouldn't mean that everyone else on this site should mindlessly adhere to mediocrity, nor does it mean that the staff should mindlessly adhere to mediocrity with respect to anything outside of the subject of what they're paid. I agree it's obviously hypocritical to sign up as staff knowing you won't get paid and then complain about not being paid, but what about everyone else who isn't currently staff? Additionally, you're acting like the subject of what the staff is paid is the only thing I'm referring to in what I'm saying, when this very clearly isn't the case

 

It's incredibly toxic to shut down any and all criticism by branding it as hate/negativity purely because 'we should be grateful for what we're given'. At that point, this wouldn't be a community driven site, but an echo chamber in which discussion amounts to nothing because apparently everyone should just readily accept anything and everything the higher-ups put forth

 

Also, I find it amusing how you state one of the main issues with staff not being paid (they can leave unpredictably since they don't have any dependence on the devs), and then in the same breath you can't think of any reasons for why it might be logical for the devs to pay staff

Edited by Flake
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Sometimes I think I should just stay out of this...because I said my peace.  Recent comments are making this pawn about "unpaid staff" instead of influencers.

First of all...if it is Admins intention to award "unpaid staff", that should just be said.  They had a change of heart and decided to give a pawn to the groups of

different volunteers.  We could all then just move on.  Talking of hate and what people deserve changes all of this and the original topic people were replying on.

If admins wanted a pawn for the users and to be paid for, he would just release another pawn power.  My comment about the users making this site what it is, was

in regards to OUR opinions matter.  Not in the shortness of powers, or not being given one.  If you want this pawn, work for it.  Become a volunteer, developer, or

influencer.  I just felt it not fair to award some groups of volunteers while not others.  Contribs as example, are also unpaid volunteers.  I also would prefer to see a push

of an actual verification system and not some generic pawn.  An actual verification system STILL GIVES the volunteers credit and rewards of being recognized as a volunteer.

I think most feel this in some type of way and it has Nothing to do with hate.

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2 hours ago, xMarco said:

@Bau people should also be rewarded the user who spends money to make the site work, I mean that all users are a fundamental part of xat.com starting from the volunteer to the last user. As for scams, there is a guide to avoiding scams.

Is that a joke? People who are buying xat products is because want extra features, yeah, their money is important to xat etc. But they are buying products, how this can fit "helping"? Can I buy Microsoft Windows license and ask to give me a PC because I helped them?

 

You also touched on the scams part. Well, isn't easy as that, you were part of helping chats so you know the amount of daily scams being reported, not everyone know about these guides, people know about it when it's too late.

 

1 hour ago, Flake said:

 

...

As I said, it's per choice, you don't need to start helping if you don't want. Whoever disagree on how it work. Well, dont help maybe? I see this happening a lot, and seem to be fair. 

 

About criticism yeah, I agree on some parts, you're right, it moves the community, but I'm saying that it's negative, criticism can be tagged as both (positive or negative).

 

43 minutes ago, Christina said:

Recent comments are making this pawn about "unpaid staff" instead of influencers.

Past comments started to tall about it, yet I mentioned before the real subject. Since the start this idea was purely focused on influencers, and some groups atleast for some time.

 

43 minutes ago, Christina said:

Become a volunteer, developer, or

influencer.  I just felt it not fair to award some groups of volunteers while not others.  Contribs as example, are also unpaid volunteers.  I also would prefer to see a push

of an actual verification system and not some generic pawn.  An actual verification system STILL GIVES the volunteers credit and rewards of being recognized as a volunteer.

I think most feel this in some type of way and it has Nothing to do with hate.

You know better than others that some groups are working more than others, as former staff you would know it... I may mention wiki translators (as site translators - they were not even mentioned so far), volunteers for giving their time to reply tickets and do the right move, devs for keeping development of html5 chat/pages.

 

The verification system would fit better, yeah, even for other ranks. Maybe in future updates we see it, admins are reading these opnions I'm sure. As I said, post title says "new pawn for influencers", not "new pawn for staff", so my conclusion is that it's a kind of temp reward.

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@xLamingI have not touched any scam button, I just answered bau on what I thought, honestly laming your point of view I did not understand it at all, what does the windows license matter have to do with it? what does it have to do with helping a person and asking for someone else's pc? here we talk about a powers, to express one's point of view but I have read absurd things like hatred towards volunteers, let's be serious we always talk about a power, let's remove this word hatred towards a person for a power.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, xLaming said:

As I said, it's per choice, you don't need to start helping if you don't want. Whoever disagree on how it work. Well, dont help maybe? I see this happening a lot, and seem to be fair. 

 

It's a nonsense argument to say that deficiencies in the workings of the site should be unanimously accepted just because people don't have to help; the workings of the site affects all users, not just the people who actively help with the workings of the site

 

3 hours ago, xLaming said:

About criticism yeah, I agree on some parts, you're right, it moves the community, but I'm saying that it's negative, criticism can be tagged as both (positive or negative).

 

Negative criticism isn't equivalent to blind negativity/hate; the former has substantiation, while the latter doesn't. Negative criticism is often a very necessary form of criticism, and really isn't the bad thing some people here are making it out to be

 

Also, a good amount of the criticism here hasn't even been negative criticism; I'd say that most of it has been people offering alternatives to improve upon the ideas presented by the admins, which would fall into the category of positive criticism

Edited by Flake
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32 minutes ago, xMarco said:

here we talk about a powers, to express one's point of view but I have read absurd things like hatred towards volunteers, let's be serious we always talk about a power, let's remove this word hatred towards a person for a power.

In theory this is not a power, cannot be traded and does not have an ID number.

 

Currently the Admin has allowed a lot of diversity of pawns to be available to users through the collections and during major holiday months (Christmas / Pride Month / Anniversary), so I don't think he is willing to release a new pawn in the store, not at this time.

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1 hour ago, xLaming said:

 

 

You know better than others that some groups are working more than others, as former staff you would know it... I may mention wiki translators (as site translators - they were not even mentioned so far), volunteers for giving their time to reply tickets and do the right move, devs for keeping development of html5 chat/pages.

 

The verification system would fit better, yeah, even for other ranks. Maybe in future updates we see it, admins are reading these opnions I'm sure. As I said, post title says "new pawn for influencers", not "new pawn for staff", so my conclusion is that it's a kind of temp reward.

I would never consider myself former staff.  Former volunteer..yes.  Even when I wanted 143M it was not handed to me. It took Charlie and I selling our xat.me domain for me to get it.  At the opportunities presented when I could have received it as reward, I chose the other person to receive instead of myself.  I realize not everyone thinks the way I do nor should they have too.  Wiki translators as well as contribs or any volunteer group not listed, should just have as much right to this pawn as the label volunteer.  I have the upmost respect for Sydno and the current volunteers in all forms. 

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2 hours ago, Abrahan said:

In theory this is not a power, cannot be traded and does not have an ID number.

 

Currently the Admin has allowed a lot of diversity of pawns to be available to users through the collections and during major holiday months (Christmas / Pride Month / Anniversary), so I don't think he is willing to release a new pawn in the store, not at this time.

as I see it, no one here is an influencer if we reward people who have helped on the site this is another matter I am always of the opinion that the paying user must have the opportunity to get a little man of another color because how they help people with tickets etc. even paying users help in their own small way.

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, xMarco said:

as I see it, no one here is an influencer if we reward people who have helped on the site this is another matter I am always of the opinion that the paying user must have the opportunity to get a little man of another color because how they help people with tickets etc. even paying users help in their own small way.

Saying "we all contribute equally!" is nice and all, but it's also quite disingenuous. Certain roles put more time and hard work in than other roles do. Admitting that isn't taking away from the contributions of those in smaller roles (e.g. a person whose largest contribution is through the contributor group), it's just recognizing the extraordinary effort and achievements of those in larger roles (such as a ticket volunteer who has been manning their position for years and is one of the most trusted confidants of the admins). 

 

Where you draw the line for recognition with this pawn is a very fair debate, but the existence of this line is not, in my opinion.

Edited by Steven
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Posted (edited)

Ok, I'll give my replies (don't quote me, plz, I won't reply).

 

 

@Flake: We all (you, me, others) are users, we give our opinions/suggestions, whether they will be accepted or not, it's not up to us to decide.

 

Everyone knows about the shortcomings that xat has been having over the last few years, such as when tickets were delayed for 6-8 months in 2016/2018, or time delay in HTML5 to be finalized, but that's all because xat is focused on volunteer work (devs, support etc), it's a decision of the admins to be like that, many sites still have this kind of support (although some of them also have the paid alternative). E.g: Google has paid support for subscribers, and forums so people can help each other. Facebook, there's community support and there's also more professional support (which actually get paid). cPanel sells licenses, it's the biggest company for that matter, it has community support, others prefer to pay for help (65 USD), customers keep using it because they like it.

 

I think you understand what I mean, and yes I think xat would have a paid support and community support like any other company, I've always been in favor of that.

 

When I said about "being ungrateful" it was because there are people who started helping, and then in pvt or unofficial chats they started saying they were working like slaves (yes, that word). I know volunteers, contributors, wiki members, help chats staff who did this, but at the same time they didn't want to lose their rank. That's being ungrateful and hypocritical, because they were never forced to.

 

If when you mentioned that "there are other issues" you mean for example: 90% of the suggestions on the forum are not considered even being good and having great feedback, or the fact that some powers are not working (even if they are paid), ok, I fully agree with this.

 

@xMarco: I think you misunderstood, or expressed yourself wrong. I gave the Windows example, because you are buying xat products, this cannot be considered "helping xat/users".

If your idea is for xat to release/add new pawns in the xat store, I support your idea.

 

@Christina: I used the word "ex staff" because even though they are not being paid, they can be called "unpaid staff/unpaid xat staff", it is not incorrect.

 

BTW, I never said that you got something, you brought up that subject now. I said you know that some groups work harder than others. Remember that there are people coding, creating smilies, translating etc.

 

----

 

Adding: I wasn't the one who said about "hate" so dont tag me.

 

Getting back to the subject of the post, read the title plz, title says "for influencers". It was said in the last lines that the pawn will be given to some user groups, and also specified that it may be removed at any time.

 

I think to avoid all this kind of drama, contributors/volunteers would talk to admins so they can open a "Google Form" to get feedback from users, as everyone has commented on a lot of different topics. This has never been raised by xat, and it would be a good idea to know which way xat should go, rather than just focusing on the opinion of the few users who have more voice. If this is done, please leave the results public for better transparency.

Edited by xLaming
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I am suggesting to change the color of this pawn, due to its small size and color it can be difficult to differentiate it from the Cyan pawn.

 

Maybe you can make it a brighter color to make it stand out, like #1863F7.

 

nkMq1PX.png

 

If others agree, I invite you to suggest other colors for this pawn. ;) 

Edited by Abrahan
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1 hour ago, Abrahan said:

I am suggesting to change the color of this pawn, due to its small size and color it can be difficult to differentiate it from the Cyan pawn.

 

Maybe you can make it a brighter color to make it stand out, like #1863F7.

 

nkMq1PX.png

 

If others agree, I invite you to suggest other colors for this pawn. ;) 

 

I found the color of the new pawn for influencers very light, and I find this color very interesting.

Edited by Kale
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5 hours ago, Abrahan said:

I am suggesting to change the color of this pawn, due to its small size and color it can be difficult to differentiate it from the Cyan pawn.

 

Maybe you can make it a brighter color to make it stand out, like #1863F7.

 

nkMq1PX.png

 

If others agree, I invite you to suggest other colors for this pawn. ;) 

 

In addition to what Abrahan suggested with regards to a different color. Since resellers are now officially "verified" I don't get why they can't just have their own colored pawns instead of being grouped into the same category. Wouldn't that make it easier/clearer for people to refer others to finding resellers? Like, you can't just tell someone to look for a reseller by looking at this new pawn because other users are grouped into the same category. And yes I know there's a dedicated page about it the resellers and where to find them but if you're going to give them a pawn anyway, might as well make it even clearer? Just a thought.

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20 hours ago, Enter said:

 

In addition to what Abrahan suggested with regards to a different color. Since resellers are now officially "verified" I don't get why they can't just have their own colored pawns instead of being grouped into the same category. Wouldn't that make it easier/clearer for people to refer others to finding resellers? Like, you can't just tell someone to look for a reseller by looking at this new pawn because other users are grouped into the same category. And yes I know there's a dedicated page about it the resellers and where to find them but if you're going to give them a pawn anyway, might as well make it even clearer? Just a thought.

 

ya that's what a good amount of people including me have been saying but they still implemented it like this anyway because ??? logic is not a thing apparently

 

vols, smiley makers and influencers should also not have the exact same pawn, just makes no sense to not give them separate things because it makes things more complex for no reason. i get that it's probably hard to find multiple pawn colors that would be suitable but like, it could just not be a pawn? it could just be a badge and/or do what martin said with it saying "Volunteer"/"Smiley Maker"/"Influencer"/"Reseller" when you hover over someones name/pawn, or something else

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3 hours ago, Flake said:

 

ya that's what a good amount of people including me have been saying but they still implemented it like this anyway because ??? logic is not a thing apparently

 

vols, smiley makers and influencers should also not have the exact same pawn, just makes no sense to not give them separate things because it makes things more complex for no reason. i get that it's probably hard to find multiple pawn colors that would be suitable but like, it could just not be a pawn? it could just be a badge and/or do what martin said with it saying "Volunteer"/"Smiley Maker"/"Influencer"/"Reseller" when you hover over someones name/pawn, or something else

 

Yeah agreed, could be completely different thing too. Like a shape? Could have gone down the same route as badges tbh lol. This is just lazy.

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