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Elie

Should help chats have saved messaging enabled?

Messages are no longer saved on a certain help chat  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Should saved messages be enabled on help chats?

    • Yes
      29
    • No
      4


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3 minutes ago, Crow said:

May be a dumb question, but why? :$

Classified, but I don't agree with it. Just vote yes!

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I've been temped on Help this morning. After I asked a question to a user to get more details about his issue, I had to refresh because of some reasons. When coming back a second after, I had no ideas whether the user has replied nor if someone else replied something else.

Maybe permanent helpers are used with that, yet, I don't feel it's helping to disable messages.

 

Moreover, as long as you can clear the messages with the bot (which is one of the most useful command imo) I guess you don't need to hide messages to new users.

 

I also guess there are other reasons for not saving chat messages but I doubt this is as important. Maybe we would need Brandon's opinion directly in order to have all the cards to play.

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2 minutes ago, Sydno said:

Maybe we would need Brandon's opinion directly in order to have all the cards to play.

No we don't. ¬.¬

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I don't see why saved message wos disabled; i mean for what purpose?

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3 hours ago, Elie said:

Classified, but I don't agree with it. Just vote yes!

 

What is the point of this thread? We can't vote on something we don't understand nor have context on.

 

Storing messages were disabled for a reason, which as you say, is classified, so without knowing why something is done, we can't vote.

No idea why 14* people voted yes without knowing why something was implemented in the first place, are we in the UK?

 

Brandon isn't willing to reveal these 'classified' reasons, then what are you doing besides using the community to cause trouble for him?

 

/throwaway account

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Obviously I don't know for sure why he disabled it for sure but I think it has to do with the amount of toons who come Help with the sole purpose of being inappropriate. Now that messages aren't stored, you can refresh and have a brand new and inappropriate free chat. 

 

With messages stored, if you refresh you could see all the messages, even ones from banned users. Users would join the chat and see all this inappropriate content.

 

I also think this is a situation/debate for help owners (and possibly mods) to have on their own. I am not help staff, I don't deserve a say in the operations of the chat. 

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The reasoning AFAIK is one user being annoying. That's why I don't agree with it.

 

This thread wasn't meant to be serious either.

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1 minute ago, Harrison said:

Would've been nice to know 10 minutes ago lmao.

I still want saved messages back though. Maybe Brandon will reconsider.

8 minutes ago, Harrison said:

I also think this is a situation/debate for help owners (and possibly mods) to have on their own. I am not help staff, I don't deserve a say in the operations of the chat. 

You are a staff on other help chats, aren't you? How would you feel if it was enabled there?

 

51 minutes ago, Dad said:

then what are you doing besides using the community to cause trouble for him?

I like causing trouble for him.

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17 minutes ago, Elie said:

You are a staff on other help chats, aren't you? How would you feel if it was enabled there?

Well if Assistance was having the same issue Help is having (toons coming on the chat every 30 seconds for the sole purpose of saying something inappropriate) I would ask Arthur to turn off storing. In the rare case you refresh and don't see what someone says you can always ask them to repeat themselves. 

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idk what exactly is this 'classified' reason why help's chat store messages was disabled. I kind of dislike it really but in someway it's fine for me I can just ask again the person I am helping directly with his previous message after I refreshed on the chat. btw why haven't Brandon tried first to use the bot's command !cls.

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Well, I don't see anything classified about why don't store was turned on so... 

 

The reason is, as Elie skimmed over, users coming in and using the fact that messages can be seen even after they have been banned if you have just signed in or if you sign out and in to their advantage. So this advantage was taken away. I guess the motivation for this change was the fact that Brandon didn't want users to sign into help and see Nazi propaganda (one of the main issues) and other inappropriate messaged.

 

I don't agree with the change because for one it's just annoying, two if someone is being inappropriate before you signed in you'd need to ask someone to screenshot, three if someone needs help and you just sign in you wont know, and lastly the fact you miss a portion of the chat if you change your name or whatever.

 

IIRC other solutions are being looked at but for now I think it's going to have to stay.

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17 minutes ago, Stah said:

I guess the motivation for this change was the fact that Brandon didn't want users to sign into help and see Nazi propaganda (one of the main issues) and other inappropriate messaged.

Is it that hard for mods to sign out and in to delete the message themselves

 

I do it all the time. e.e

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You say "should help chats" as if this is a general policy open for discussion.

 

I understood the implications before I made the change. However, I should note that the change is meant to be temporary.

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14 minutes ago, Brandon said:

However, I should note that the change is meant to be temporary.

Better be. ?

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ALL I want to do is laugh at this thread.

It reminds me of this... Elie went To B.  B disagreed.  So Elie came here type of scenario.  :$

 

I have no opinion on the matter since the bot stores messages, and you have backup if really need.

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I'm going to throw this out there, I know in the past it's been discussed. Wouldn't this be a good time to make Help registered only? 

 

Because lets be logical for a moment, most of the users who want help with the service are already registered, and most of the rule breakers who are likely to post inappropriate content are unregistered. 

 

This will prevent raids, and therefore prevent genuine users in need of help, or staff, being screwed over when captcha doesn't work.

 

Generally, sites which have certain free 'privileges' for registered users, i.e a Help system (or chat in this case), would see a higher rate of unregistered users joining the service. 

 

If there was an unregistered user requiring Help, is it that hard to put a short message on announce, and tell staff not to use NOPC and NOPM (which in my opinion, no staff on help should use, regardless of rank or whether they're a volunteer). 

 

I know this idea has been rejected in the past, but this kills many birds with one stone, and also means message storing can be turned back on. 

 

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35 minutes ago, Ryan said:

I'm going to throw this out there, I know in the past it's been discussed. Wouldn't this be a good time to make Help registered only? 

Don't you remember the lost access policy thread 

 

People freaking out over not everyone having the same treatment 

 

Please don't let it happen again 

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40 minutes ago, Ryan said:

snip

This would have been done weeks or even months ago if it was actually up to us and Brandon. Admins are absolutely against the idea and believe that Help should be open for all as far as possible.

 

It's no problem to turn /pr on for an hour when a raid happens or the unbanning toons start getting disruptive however the problem is that then registered users get the captcha which is just plain annoying. I believe the solution will be to remove the captcha on /pr and let it be used as a pseudo-members-only where it can be turned on and off based on the circumstances and still keep help open to all as far as possible.

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46 minutes ago, Elie said:

Don't you remember the lost access policy thread 

 

People freaking out over not everyone having the same treatment 

 

Please don't let it happen again 

That's totally different because it involved payment. Registering is free.

42 minutes ago, Stah said:

This would have been done weeks or even months ago if it was actually up to us and Brandon. Admins are absolutely against the idea and believe that Help should be open for all as far as possible.

 

It's no problem to turn /pr on for an hour when a raid happens or the unbanning toons start getting disruptive however the problem is that then registered users get the captcha which is just plain annoying. I believe the solution will be to remove the captcha on /pr and let it be used as a pseudo-members-only where it can be turned on and off based on the circumstances and still keep help open to all as far as possible.

Captcha is fine until it stops working. 

A past xat I can see why admins don't want the chat registered only. Future and current xat I'm not so sure. /pr reverting to reg only is a nice idea though 

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