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Changes to the reputation system

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The reputation system has been messed up for a year (maybe even longer) practically and finally, it's been decided to try and fix it when the forum activity has decreased significantly? The damage has already been done and it's honestly probably too late to even bother fixing it. Stating that it's "spoiling the enjoyment of other users who worked hard to gain their reputation through effort" isn't really valid when this has been going on for so long and has bothered many people in the past. Where was the action long ago then? If it's BLATANTLY obvious that certain people are abusing the system, then their actions should be dealt with individually. I think it was pretty obvious before.... It'd only be fair if the reputation of what you consider "not worthy" be reset on all those specific users too. 

 

I am personally not a fan of people liking silly things like simple name entries to giveaways but honestly the forum hardly even has many constructive or noteworthy posts anymore. If you don't want people giving reputation points on giveaways/certain sub-forums or silly status updates, then why not just disable it there? Isn't it a little bit bias for the people who have the most reputation and several "quality" posts be telling everyone else that they should only be awarding "quality" posts? It's just a reputation system after all and this forum has multiple people who might not be fully fluent in English, so it might be slightly more difficult for them to actually execute "decent" or "quality" posts.

 

 The reactions sort of contradict each other -- someone can post something really constructive yet be absolutely hilarious at the same time. I would personally prefer using the "haha" reaction in that case, but it doesn't really make sense to react with a trophy even though they deserve a point for it.

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1 hour ago, Lemona said:

If it's BLATANTLY obvious that certain people are abusing the system, then their actions should be dealt with individually.

 

The abusers are dealt with individually, but the change is also about providing more freedom for everyone to use likes, whether they've broken rules or not.

 

1 hour ago, Lemona said:

Isn't it a little bit bias for the people who have the most reputation and several "quality" posts be telling everyone else that they should only be awarding "quality" posts? It's just a reputation system after all and this forum has multiple people who might not be fully fluent in English, so it might be slightly more difficult for them to actually execute "decent" or "quality" posts.

 

Reputation should be given to quality content though. The forum guidelines indicate this too:

 

Quote

16. Avoid reputation abuse. Asking other members for reputation is not allowed. If your content is good enough, you will receive reputation appropriately. The spirit of this rule is to prevent mass amounts of reputation from being earned when it's undue. This means that if you make a quality post and remind users to show appreciation by giving a like, that would be acceptable. The same goes for taking away reputation.

 

If there's a better way to define reputation (or if it needs redefining), I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

 

1 hour ago, Lemona said:

The reactions sort of contradict each other -- someone can post something really constructive yet be absolutely hilarious at the same time. I would personally prefer using the "haha" reaction in that case, but it doesn't really make sense to react with a trophy even though they deserve a point for it.

 

I believe the trophy would be a catch-all reaction for this. Reddit gold is given to funny posts on Reddit (although it's obviously a different environment), so the trophy could cover funny posts here too, if they deserve it. Nonetheless, if you believe there's a better icon than a trophy, this can be considered. The main purpose of this change is that 'likes' no longer give reputation (and can be used freely) and a new reaction has been created specifically to award quality posts. The trophy was an afterthought.

 

Thank you for the comments!

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On 11/26/2019 at 9:31 PM, Angelo said:

We have decided to slightly adjust the way reputation works here on the forum.

 

You may have noticed the unique “trophy” icon that exists now when you go to react to a post. This trophy is now the way that you will show someone you think they've made a quality post.

 

This was done to help combat reputation abuse here on the forum, as well as try to focus which posts truly deserve reputation. The trophy reaction should be used for posts that really deserve a reputation point, including but not limited to: 

 

1) Suggestions;

2) Graphical designs or other creative works;

3) Discussion regarding how to better xat, the wiki, tickets, the forum, HTML5, or any other facet of xat;

4) Informational updates on xat that you find to be useful or to be a welcomed change.

 

The trophy reaction should NOT be used for:

 

1) Giveaways for free xats, days, or powers;

2) Jokes your friends make on statuses or posts;

3) Status updates regarding information not pertaining to xat;

4) Inspirational quotes or happy birthday statuses;

5) New power threads.

 

Please keep in mind that this set of “rules” is not an undying will that will be forced upon every post that is submitted on the forum. It is only to caution against users who gain a large amount of reputation in a small amount of time, mainly from their friends, or newly created forum accounts.

 

Any cases where a user is found regularly giving a reputation point to their friends simply to boost their reputation will be reprimanded as if you were engaging in reputation abuse. 

 

Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Please drop them below so we may discuss this new change. This feature is still relatively new and will be monitored for the weeks to come to see if it needs to be tweaked or not.

 

 

So that I'm clear, you're only given reputation points if the award trophy icon is selected? I think it's a bit too flashy for a "quality post" Most sites only use a star or plus icon. I think that people getting reputation from things like statuses actually made users want to post "Happy Birthday" more often. I'm not saying it's good to only wish someone happy birthday in hopes of reputation in return, however it's encouraging to have almost 10 users you don't know tell you happy birthday. Status comments being liked, etc is understandable, just seems to be the only real reason for this. I feel that if a user doesn't get an award reaction now, they could be hostile toward that user and cause personal issues. (Before you got rep for any reaction, right? Or was it only the heart? What if I want to heart something and rep it?)

On 11/27/2019 at 2:59 PM, Crow said:

 

Before this change, Likes were frequently being used to show affection and enjoyment  regardless of post quality , which isn't in the spirit of the reputation system. With the addition of the trophy icon, these same users can continue liking anything they want - but this time they won't be damaging the reputation system, and they won't have to worry about reputation abuse.

 

The trophy hasn't simply replaced the 'Like' reaction - it's also allowed 'Like' to be used more freely without imposing on forum guidelines.

 

 

Surely it's better to add more freedom of expression (which we've done by freeing up the 'Like' button) than to simply remove all the reactions.

 

But the spirit of the reputation system is to compare people with a trophy (basically being relevant) and some emojis... ?

 

P.S. @Angelo I think in the first post it should be made more clear which reactions do what now. As I can't seem to find a for sure answer.

Edited by Toxic

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As many users have stated, this 'reform' is now quite obsolete. They are not the changes theirselves that just do not make it, it is how the forum has been working lately. Now that too many users have reached 2000+ reputation points and half of them being given just for participating in contests and some birthday wishes to unknown users just for the heart, it is not fair adding this unclear restriction. What posts now deserve to be given a trophy after all this time, when the forum is kept alive thanks to birthday wishes, users posting the last song they have listened to and a couple of contests. xat related posts are seldom posted now, and this leads to the reactions becoming useless. 

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Just to be clear, posts like this shouldn't be awarded trophies:

 

Trophies.thumb.png.e5990dd970460e58fd08f0234c6ecd6c.png

 

Trophies = quality posts. They deserve reputation and may be thoughtful, and may have taken effort to produce.

 

Other reactions would be more suitable here. Likes no longer give reputation, so they can be used here instead (that's what the change is intended for).

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3 hours ago, Crow said:

Para ser claros, publicaciones como esta no deberían recibir trofeos:

 

Trophies.thumb.png.e5990dd970460e58fd08f0234c6ecd6c.png

 

Trofeos = publicaciones de calidad. Se merecen reputación y pueden ser reflexivos, y pueden haber hecho un esfuerzo para producir.

 

Otras reacciones serían más adecuadas aquí. Los me gusta ya no dan reputación, por lo que se pueden usar aquí en su lugar (para eso está destinado el cambio).

@Cuervo

That seems perfect to me, but now I ask, will those users who misuse the reputation be sanctioned? For example in that post there are many trophies and they are simple comments. I know they are for important things, but it is good to give a reputation point for helping and for pleasure.

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On 11/28/2019 at 12:06 PM, Toxic said:

So that I'm clear, you're only given reputation points if the award trophy icon is selected?

 

[...]

 

P.S. @Angelo I think in the first post it should be made more clear which reactions do what now. As I can't seem to find a for sure answer.

 

“Thanks”, “Cool”, “Haha”, and “Wow” reactions will also give a reputation point. This is the exact same as before, and has not changed. Apologies as this contradicts information in the original topic when it was first posted (which was edited soon after), but there was a misunderstanding. This information has been added to the topic post.

 

To clarify one last time, the only changes that were made are as follows:

  • Likes no longer give reputation.
  • The trophy has been added, which should be used to award quality posts.
1 hour ago, Templario said:

@Cuervo

That seems perfect to me, but now I ask, will those users who misuse the reputation be sanctioned? For example in that post there are many trophies and they are simple comments. I know they are for important things, but it is good to give a reputation point for helping and for pleasure.

 

If trophies continue to be awarded for no discernible reason, each case will be looked into.

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People are talking about freedom, so why isn't yet a button called "DISABLE REACTIONS" on our profiles?

 

Better than getting warnings/ban or whatever for something that isn't our fault,

 

Vols, forum mods or whatever can't judge this based on their "mind", this should be done fairly, there is some people getting likes/trophies on profiles and getting warnings or PMs, what if those people giving likes or trophies on profiles aren't their friends are your guys just applying unfair warning/bans/punishes?

 

I've got some prints that forum staff doesnt care about what the user say when this happen, they just care about "THIS IS WHAT IVE SEEN/I THINK", is this fair?

 

Reputation system should be remade, adding a new "icon" isn't enough yet, actions can't be done just because "SOMEONE THINKS"... actions should be made based in facts.

Edited by xLaming
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They removed all my reputation, where does it said I broke the rules? Is not my fault that other people react to my status.

Users shouldn't be limited to do what you think is right to do, it doesn't work like that. It's not my fault and I don't force no one to do like my status, I'm not guilty that they like what I post.

Here it's mentioned that we should give awards (trophies) to a content with "quality", I see some users giving an award for just a simple comment or opinion? There's a contradiction with yourselves, but if they react to my status, then you have to remove my ratings, but you gives like even for just a comment "hi" and don't remove the reaction or the like that was given.

I think that's why we have the emoticons button (to be used), because of that is obviously that only you guys want to have reputation.

I hope @Adminsee this comment, this way they see because of this reasons xat have less users and every days is less, this is a forum and you want to limited to some users to everything, so then make the forum private only for staff, friends and for the ones that celebrate all they make and that's it, problem resolved.

Mr. @Angelo like I mentioned the reaction award (trophy) is NOT to be used for:

1) Gift for xats, days or free powers.

2) Jokes that your friends make about statuses of posts.

3) Statutes updates with respect to the information that doesn't belong to xat.

4) Inspired Quotes or happy birthdays statuses.

5) New Topic of powers.

So like you removed my reputation, look at the others why you're not doing it, mentioned some things of "quality" and you don't see your own contributors.

What you really need to do is that, in the profile status, the button like should be disable, So you would avoid so much drama!

and leave the button enable in the four reasons you've mentioned:

1) Suggestions

2) Graphics designs or other creative works.

3) Discussion about how to improve xat, wiki, tickets, forum, HTML5 or another topic of xat.

4) Informative Updates about xat. 

And one more thing, I'm not asking nobody to like my content or posts and neither my friends or another group.

With all respect @Ariana Grande if for you some status updates are silly o aren't "decent" nor "quality" because the ones we can't dominate the english and I think every person publish what they want in their "status".

 

Edited by CH3RRY
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Is the system wrong since one year and just now they realize? If you do not know how to manage a forum, resign and put people who know and can solve the problems and do not abuse their power in the forum.

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39 minutes ago, siglo said:

 

¿Está mal el sistema desde hace un año y ahora se dan cuenta? Si no sabe cómo administrar un foro, renuncie y ponga a las personas que saben y pueden resolver los problemas y no abusen de su poder en el foro.

 

i think the same if this is so years ago, now is that you realize? they are just abusing their rank

 

they should give up and have dignity

 

@Lemona i do not need to know or not english, xat is international and there are many tools to communicate with others, everyone has errors or you do not have?

 

the majority of users that are in xat are few and that most are all spanish speaking.

Edited by D4niel
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7 hours ago, xLaming said:

Better than getting warnings/ban or whatever for something that isn't our fault,

 

You won't receive a warning if you've done nothing wrong. Your reputation may be adjusted fairly based on the circumstances though.

 

In any case, if you're concerned about users targeting you and awarding you with excessive reputation for no reason, please report it if you notice it happening.

 

17 minutes ago, CH3RRY said:

They removed all my reputation, where does it said I broke the rules? Is not my fault that other people react to my status.

Users shouldn't be limited to do what you think is right to do, it doesn't work like that. It's not my fault and I don't force no one to do like my status, I'm not guilty that they like what I post.

 

We appreciate you did not break any rules, and you did not force anyone to like your content.

 

However, your reputation still needed to be reset because you obtained mass amounts of reputation from others when it was undue.

 

52 minutes ago, CH3RRY said:

Here it's mentioned that we should give awards (trophies) to a content with "quality", I see some users giving an award for just a simple comment or opinion? There's a contradiction with yourselves, but if they react to my status, then you have to remove my ratings, but you gives like even for just a comment "hi" and don't remove the reaction or the like that was given.

 

If users continue to award trophies for no reason, each case will be reviewed accordingly.

 

There are lots of factors to consider, including the number of times it's happened and how long it's been happening for.

 

11 minutes ago, siglo said:

Is the system wrong since one year and just now they realize? If you do not know how to manage a forum, resign and put people who know and can solve the problems and do not abuse their power in the forum.

7 minutes ago, D4niel said:

 

i think the same if this is so years ago, now is that you realize? they are just abusing their rank

 

they should give up and have dignity

 

We should avoid creating unnecessary drama here.

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Just now, siglo said:

serious answers please. is a contributor comment seriously to the publication and not with video thanks

that's my answer to y'all who are crying because of reputation

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44 minutes ago, Crow said:

 

No hay advertencia una advertencia si no ha hecho nada malo. Sin embargo, su reputación puede ajustarse de manera justa según las circunstancias.

 

En cualquier caso, si le preocupa que los usuarios se dirijan a usted y le otorguen una reputación excesiva sin ningún motivo, infórmelo si nota que sucede.

 

 

Agradecemos que no haya infringido ninguna regla y que no haya obligado a nadie a que le guste su contenido.

 

Sin embargo, su reputación aún necesita restablecerse porque obtuvieron cantidades masivas de reputación de otros cuando era indebida.

 

 

Si los usuarios continúan otorgando trofeos sin motivo, cada caso será revisado en consecuencia.

 

Hay muchos factores a considerar, incluida la cantidad de veces que ha sucedido y por cuánto tiempo ha estado sucediendo.

 

 

Deberíamos evitar crear drama innecesario aquí.

 

With all due respect, I'm not doing any drama or maybe I can't say what I want

I am responding with education and commenting on something alone

I think we can all say, we are already too big for that

If the reputation system has been that way for years, they will now realize and take away the reputation of those who are good for them, then the comments I am reading in this post give you a trophy instead of "likes." don't you take away all the qualification? They will take away or tell me about that.

 

34 minutes ago, Thuk said:

esa es mi respuesta para todos los que lloran por la reputación

 

I don't see anything serious about your comment, so @Crow can't tell me anything, since yours passes the line and being a collaborator

Edited by D4niel

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4 minutes ago, Thuk said:

that's my answer to y'all who are crying because of reputation

well just comment correctly and not with videos thanks

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Good thing that only a few people still don't understand the point of this change, the ones that still don't understand, maybe you should try to think about it before typing all of this. Crow made it clear enought.

20 minutes ago, Crow said:

However, your reputation still needed to be reset because you obtained mass amounts of reputation from others when it was undue.

 

He explained it very clearly.

20 minutes ago, Crow said:

We should avoid creating unnecessary drama here.

And no need for drama aswell. (grump)

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4 hours ago, Shizuo said:

Good thing that only a few people still don't understand the point of this change, the ones that still don't understand, maybe you should try to think about it before typing all of this. Crow made it clear enought.

He explained it very clearly.

And no need for drama aswell. (grump)

Well, atleast based on prints Ive seen this isnt really happening, vols/forum mods saying will remove reputation, then apply warn. Is this really fair? 

 

They can simply disable reputation on profile statuses or allow, but if something is there is to be used lol... Freedom... Freedom tsk tsk, I dont think so, ALLOW or DENY not "MAYBE"... I dont think forum staff or vols can judge people just because "I THINK", same to any other people, actions should be based in facts.

 

People can spam reactions in profiles, you will get reputation reset, what about other reactions you got? Cleared? Is this fair?? (NOTE: THIS ISNT CLEAR)

 

Well, I think after some resets you will get warn or ban, so... What if you didnt break guidelines? Based in other' actions you will be punished? 

 

Who reacted should be punished, NOT who received reactions. (Exactly what I have seen in prints, someone(STAFF) saying will warn someone because of reactions) which is totally unfair to this person.

 

Just allow button 'Disable reactions in this post' and 'Disable reactions in statuses' this is the minimum forum staff would do.

Edited by xLaming

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I've spent a bit of time reading through the replies and I'm grateful to see so much feedback, positive and negative. Here are a few things to consider:

  • I, nor any other member of the forum staff, will be scanning and studying each individual award point that goes out. That'd be too tedious and not worth the effort. The only time we take the time to investigate a matter is if we receive numerous reports about it from other forum users. If Tom decides to give Fred a Trophy for a random post once, we aren't going to warn and ban Tom into oblivion. It's only when Tom starts to give Fred 5 Trophies a day for 7 days in a row that we may decide to ask what's going on.
  • Removing the ability to give forum reputation in certain areas altogether seems way too restrictive to me. I still want users to give out reactions and likes to their friends for funny statuses, or other meaningful posts. I think either @SLOom or @Leandro mentioned just completely ditching the ability to give rep in "New Power Testing"-- to which I argue that I believe that'd be a bad idea. Good thoughts and ideas, suggestions and feedback can be given to new powers, and I think smiley makers and xat enjoy seeing those types of posts. It would be a shame, and like I mentioned above, way too restrictive to just remove it entirely. 
  • I actually really like the idea @xLaming suggested about being able to remove reputation from your own profile, similar to the "Recent Visitors" widget. However, this is something that would have to be approved by the forum administrators provided there is IPS support for it. I'm not sure if it would be possible, but perhaps if enough support was given to the idea, it could be enacted. At this time I think they want to keep things the way they are for a bit to monitor feedback. 
  • Like Crow mentioned, no new rules have been made. These rules have already existed, we just decided to be a bit more vocal about them to try to prevent confusion and lack of moderator feedback. 

I want to say thank you to everyone who has provided feedback thus far, even if you are not a fan of this new system. I always believe there is a way to provide feedback and criticism without being malicious about it, and a lot of users have shown this to be true. To those wishing death to the forum staff, throwing out threats to our lives and other such hostile ideas, I challenge you to step back for a moment to reconsider how much of an affect this has on your lives. Please try to give constructive feedback, not just malignant words of hatred.

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I'm trying to understand what's going on here.

Paulo, Cherry and others mentioned what to do, turn off the votes, and just keep up the smilies reaction without a positive or negative vote. [I agree]
If you do not know how to proceed, I will help you do this.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want to thank 3 former volunteers, I don't want to give their name.
He explained everything that happened, and why it happened. But we came to the conclusion that it was all a mistake on the part of the staff Forum.

My sister was blocked because she always reacts to my posts in the Forum, such as status, new power, contests.
I am sorry for you lazy ones, who do not want to check things before making the decision, could talk to me, or even my sister.

The forum has a technology, a certain page where you can get all the information about a person, where he was logged in, how many times he changed his name, what net IP he has, When he reacted to a post and when he was logged in from a another IP on the Forum so you have the opportunity to see if she is reacting to the forum or someone like me.
There are many other ways to check someone and their changes.

You also have access to these simple information.
Recently Used Devices, Email Address, Display Name, Password, Profile Status, Signature, Birthday, About Me, xat Username, Status, Others . . . .
You have the power to deactivate or activate whatever I mentioned above, to check, change or delete.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Almost everything I wrote is on the topic, it is a problem caused by the forum team, also because of the reactions, now you do not come as you want changes, I think the forum has always suffered from reactions.
I do not expect anyone to understand me, I know what my sister went through, so many people suffer, for you just a fun, for others it is importante.


Regards Bau

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11 hours ago, Angelo said:

I still want users to give out reactions and likes to their friends for funny statuses, or other meaningful posts.

This sounds much better and all the drama here in the forum can be avoided. Specially when there's not equality between all users of the forum. The simple solution to that can be easy is to leave just 3 reactions:

Like ( (applause)) or ( pink heart)

Laugh ( (maniac) ) or ( (toj) )

Thanks ( (hug) ) or ( (victory) )

 

Forum Staff: Let's be friendly to everyone and make friends (which is the purpose of xat) and not enemies.  I love xat and a lot of users that are friendly but if the purpose of xat is not to make friends worldwide, then all this drama will be helpful to make enemies . I know a lot of people that says the current staff are not friendly, they are proud, believed by the rank they have, even by the power they have as much as in xat and in the forum. Been honest to all of you, I don't like that kind of attitude when people say that. Of course I don't say anything because is not against me but we need more users to trust in you guys so xat can keep growing instead of loosing users..

 

With all the respect Mr. @Admin and sorry to bother you about all this but I am including you, so you don't miss all the above. 

 

 

Best Regards to Everyone! 

 

 

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