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Hadez

Abolishment of the Blacklist system on official chats

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Posted (edited)

I recently made a ticket regarding this suggestion, and they asked me to post it here. Any feedback would be appreciated!

 

Hello,

I am concerned about the Blacklist system on official chats. This is a system that can be abused by high ranking users to target certain individuals. 

Example: User1 is an owner of 'Lobby', and User2 says something rude/offensive that User1 dislikes. User1 then decides to put User2 on a blacklist because of this.

There's no reason for a blacklist system to exist whatsoever. If anyone takes the time to earn a higher rank or attempts to prove themselves they should be given a fair shot at it despite what they say in any other chat or to any specific user. If anything blacklisting breeds animosity or bias towards any user on the list.

**I have no proof of any abuse, but blacklisting can and may be abused**

Thank you for reading!

 

To users unfamiliar with what the blacklist is or never heard of it:

It's a list of users who may have said something offensive (deemed so by anyone in power), even if messages were in other chats. These users are made ineligible for staff rank in the chat they're blacklisted in, even if they've done nothing wrong inside the specific chatroom. Imagine this, someone dislikes you for what you've said about them (even if it wasn't that bad). They then turn around and blacklist you from ever possibly becoming staff in an official chat. That's not fair at all. I didn't even know this existed until yesterday and it's honestly surprising.

Edited by Hadez
-additional information

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I don't think there's a blacklist system in all official chats.

 

However, I completely understand the reason why someone can be "blacklisted" even if they said something offensive in other chat or if they've had unprofessional or embarrassing behaviours in other chats and not necessarily in the chat where they want to get a rank. I run an official chat, and I would never give a rank to people with such behaviour. Having people with such behaviour as staff members can easily create an unnecesary negative perception of the chat. That's the reason why some people can be blacklisted even if they didn't do anything wrong in the chat where they're trying to get a rank, and I'm sure most chat managers would agree with what I'm saying.

 

Furthermore, that's not the only reason why someone can be blacklisted, toxic people are usually blacklisted too, or at least that's a reason for me to blacklist people, even if they were staff members in the past.

 

Anyway, there will always be abusive chat managers that won't act fairly, and that's a fact. If you feel that a chat manager acts unfairly, you can always report them.

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Almost every official chat has staff information below the rules listed for the chat and there's one line that should be read carefully:

 

Quote

Unprofessional conduct at other chats may put you at risk for getting demoted at (INSERT CHAT NAME HERE). This is handled on a case-by-case basis.

 

Besides what Solange said (having people with bad behaviour or unprofessional conducts can create negative perception of the chat), when you become staff you agree that you will follow the guidelines stated for the chat (staff guidelines included) so if the main owner considers that a person can't be part of the staff team because of the behaviour mentioned before (unprofessional conduct outside the official chat), then there's a justified reason for him/her not to be promoted. 

 

It's not about creating a "blacklist", it's all about following the guidelines that the main owner states and agree with the guidelines that you will need to follow when you become part of the team.

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Anyway, if any official chat added the list there is because its needed.

 

Proofs, id, usernames etc.

 

And lets remember that, main owners need to take control of their chats, isn't important if being official or not. Blacklists helps to prevent trashy ppl who bothers 24/7.

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well, in my opinion some use it in favor of "power", but most of the cases depend on the lines of conduct impowered by the main owner of the chat, so always the staff complies with all rules, including staff rules, or enter or exit.

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1 hour ago, Cupim said:

As a volunteer, therefore being involved with every single official chat users and staffers, I can confirm that xat does not maintain a blacklist of "unwanted" users.

 

It's obvious that the main owners and moderators maintain a collaboration "scheme" between themselves to prevent scammers and malicious users from ban evading and, let's name it "persistent trolling" (toj)

But this isn't a form of abuse, and if it is xat will review it and take the necessary actions to ensure that its users are being respected and that the terms are being properly followed. 

 

Free speech is the pillar of our chat social network. Our xat community depends on it. It needs freedom. We'll do whatever is possible to protect that freedom. 

 

It's really frustrating to deal with situations like this because most of the times, even "IF" the staff is acting wrong, the banned user is also provoking and trying to make drama ... 

So to make a parody of "win-win", that's a "lose-lose". 

 

Hopefully this thread serves a purpose of making users understand that xat wants transparency, freedom and mutual respect. 

And instructs users who feel they are on this "illusional blacklist" to change their behavior. 

 

Xoxo.

Thank you and everyone else for your time. However, it's not 'fictional' whatsoever. There's a blacklist on at least two official chats that I know of. 

 

The purpose of this post was to ensure this system is not being abused, and highlighting ways it can and may very well be abused. Normal users like myself don't even know there was a blacklist so it was very surprising when I found out by talking to a few higher ranked members on a couple of these chats. I understand the purpose of this list a little better now, but I still believe it may be abused by people with their own personal bias. Even the chat I've earned tempmod at has a blacklist, granted I cannot view it nor do I have any interest in viewing.

 

Trolls and inappropriate users will always be a problem, I myself tend not to be one of them but I still think blacklisting is terrible.

 

xat itself does not maintain a blacklist, however the users xat appoints to run these chats sometimes do and we all should be mindful of this.

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Posted (edited)

 

3 hours ago, Hadez said:

xat itself does not maintain a blacklist, however the users xat appoints to run these chats sometimes do and we all should be mindful of this.


No, they don’t. Nobody has time for that nonsense. 
They do, however, stay mindful of habitual offenders who’s only intentions when visiting official chats are to commit bannable offenses. 
There’s no list that people look at with peoples names on it stating they are to be automatically banned. However when somebody repeatedly demonstrates the same behavior, it’s hard to go un noticed and easy to earn forever bans.  


 

Edited by Nathan
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Posted (edited)
On 7/17/2019 at 9:22 PM, Nathan said:

 


No, they don’t. Nobody has time for that nonsense. 
They do, however, stay mindful of habitual offenders who’s only intentions when visiting official chats are to commit bannable offenses. 
There’s no list that people look at with peoples names on it stating they are to be automatically banned. However when somebody repeatedly demonstrates the same behavior, it’s hard to go un noticed and easy to earn forever bans.  


 

You demonstrate a misguided approach to this post.

 

Let me reinterpret myself.

 

There is no autoban list to my knowledge. There is no autokick list as well to my knowledge.

 

However, I do have proof of a blacklist of users who cannot obtain staff rank. That is, and always will be the point of this post. There is a list of users who cannot obtain higher rank based on their messages whether it be inside or outside of official chats. It is not fair. I will advocate for this abolishment until appropriate action is taken to remove this blacklist. I respect many volunteers and most official chat staff but these lists on many official chats are unneeded/misguided.

 

Blacklists exist to prevent certain users from obtaining higher ranks, meaning moderator+.

 

**I do not have proof of abuse** however, I do have proof of blacklisting existing on at least two official chatrooms.

 

 

Edited by Hadez
-additional information

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Posted (edited)

Apologizes for the confusion.
Keep in mind that staff on official chats are expected to maintain an appropriate demeanor on all chats, not just the official chat in which they are staff at. This is listed in almost all (if not all) official chat staff rules. 
Bad behavior on other chats can get you disqualified from being staff on official chats — exactly as it should be. This maintains the integrity of the chat and it’s staff list and ensures the proper people are where they should be. 

Is there an actual list? Who knows. I doubt it, but each main owner has the right to choose their staff. 

Edited by Nathan
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Agreed with Nathan. There's plenty of fair reasons why some chat managers may want to have such a list.

 

I personally don't on Chat and Trade but I understand why some do. All official chats may get an audit at some point and if such list is solely made based on personal matters, then it should be shut down. However, if there's good reasons for a user not to be considered eligible for staff for some time, then this is fair.

 

In many countries, you need a clean record to get official positions, having a blacklist serves the same purpose.

 

If you want this thread to generate action, then feel free to send me a private message indicating on what chat this occurs. We'll be checking further on these lists.

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This concern has been resolved, I don't know if I can lock my own post or not. Sorry if at any time I came off as rude or anything like that.

 

I am happy to say that no abuse has occurred, and the 'blacklist' may have just been confusion on my part.

 

I do however still disagree with how you can be demoted on an official chat based on your messages outside of the chat, we all say things we may not entirely mean in private chat or in an unofficial chat. As long as you're professional and courteous in the official chat, you should still hold your rank no matter what in my opinion.

 

Thank you everyone for your input, and thank you for reading my post. Sorry that I didn't address every single reply, but I made sure to read them all. 

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